Adventures in glucoamylase and my path to cracking Japanese lagers

[Cheshire Cat]

It’s the delivery charge that make small purchases not viable.

 

[johnny108]

Have you ever heard of an anti-gas medicine called Beano?
Used it decades ago to copy dry style lagers.

 

[Dorst]

Have you ever heard of an anti-gas medicine called Beano?
Used it decades ago to copy dry style lagers.

I have not but did some Google searches. It seems Beano contains alpha-galactosidase enzymes which also break down complex sugars into more simple sugars. I'm not sure how well it works compared to Glucoamylase but it sounds they are more similar than dissimilar.

 

[johnny108]

I didn't have access to the enzymes long ago, and I would add a few of the pills to the ferment, because it works at room temp.
Found out about it from Brew Your Own magazine; (originally in paper, but I've found the e-version)
https://byo.com/article/beano-brew/

 

[Hop_it]

I didn't have access to the enzymes long ago, and I would add a few of the pills to the ferment, because it works at room temp.
Found out about it from Brew Your Own magazine; (originally in paper, but I've found the e-version)
https://byo.com/article/beano-brew/

Interesting article . . . . . It appears from the description of the "Beano" pills that these contain the glucoamylase/amyloglucosidase enzyme, and possibly others as well. However, I doubt very much if you could obtain these easily in the UK.

 

[Hop_it]

Ignore my final comment in my post above . . . . You can buy the tablets in the UK, but they appear to be quite expensive, so perhaps a pack from the brew shop is a better buy.

 

[Dorst]

A confused update on my Japenese Lager from my side:

Today I kegged my Japanese lager. I fermented the lager for 2 weeks @ 12 degrees, let it slowly rise to 19 degrees and had it sit there for 3 days for a diacetyl rest and cleanup any residual sugars. Then I cool crashed it to 4C for about 5 days.

I expected the FG to end up close to 1.000 and instead it ended at 1.008. I normally hit my numbers relatively steadily so I checked the apparent attenuation which was 83 percent: spot on attenuation for the yeas that I used (SafLager W34/70). The beer tastes great and with some time lagering in the keg I'm sure it will drop clear in about 3 weeks. It now also has a more reasonable 5.5 percent ABV.

Even though N=1 it seems that adding glucoamylase to my mash has drastically increased the efficiency of the mash but it did not alter the final fermentability of the beer.

Either glucoamylase is not working as I expected or there is another parameter. I will explore adding glucoamylase in the fermenter as has been suggested earlier to see if that works as I had expected.

It seems my journey continues ;-)

 

[Cheshire Cat]

Reading GH recipe for Brut IPA he adds the Amylase when the SG is 1020.

 

[Dorst]

Reading GH recipe for Brut IPA he adds the Amylase when the SG is 1020.

It seems that adding the glucoamylase during fermentation is indeed the way to go - guess I learned something

Alternately it would be awesome if I could add glucoamylase to a barleywine or imperial stout to increase the mashing efficiencies without a penalty.. This finding really got my brain racing about what it means and how I can incorporate it into next brews.

 

[Hazelwood Brewery]

I’ve never used it myself but read it’s preferred temperature range is quite wide at 20C - 70C. I dare say it will still work quite happily outside of this range but less efficiently - as with all enzymes.

It appears to be denatured at around 95C though so any mash additions will be denatured in the boil and it would be necessary to add more in the fermenter to maximise the effect.

So it looks like mash additions will give you better efficiency and a higher OG, fermenter additions give you better attenuation and a lower FG. Doing both will blow your socks off!

 

[Dorst]

I’ve never used it myself but read it’s preferred temperature range is quite wide at 20C - 70C. I dare say it will still work quite happily outside of this range but less efficiently - as with all enzymes.

It appears to be denatured at around 95C though so any mash additions will be denatured in the boil and it would be necessary to add more in the fermenter to maximise the effect.

So it looks like mash additions will give you better efficiency and a higher OG, fermenter additions give you better attenuation and a lower FG. Doing both will blow your socks off!

I think it's a good possibility that the enzyme got denatured in the boil. I will try to add some enzyme to the fermenter next time to see if that give me the result I was originally looking for.

Got to love homebrew experimentation!

 

[Brewnaldo]

I used GA in a no boil mash recently and it fermented down to 1.000 (maybe further havent checked)

I also havent did any calculations re efficency of that particular mash so im unsure of how much it affected extraction.

Have you did anything further on this Dorst?

 

[Cheshire Cat]

My next brew is Tokyo Pilsner Lager malt and Flaked Rice with CML Hell and Amylase.

 

[Cheshire Cat]

I brewed the above lager and it’s been fermenting for 5 days. I was going to add the 5g of Amylase yesterday but read the pack and it said add to the boil. GH in the bible says add at half fermentation can I do this or are there two different strains?

 

[Dorst]

Hi Cheshire Cat,

From my current knowledge there is only one Gluco amylase - which is an enzyme. The same company (still spirits) also sells a high temperature alpha amylase in similar package. This is bacteria based and not the same product.

In my current thinking you should add it to your fermentation (mid-fermentation or perhaps even earlier) to get to a full fermentation to FG 1.000. I tend to agree with GH here Mind you: because the temperatures are outside of optimal range you might need to give it some more time.. perhaps extend the diacetyl rest time?

Very curious what your findings are.

 

[Cheshire Cat]

Thanks Dorst
I’ve got alpha amylase so this is not the right product to add mid fermen?

 

[Brewnaldo]

Thanks Dorst
I’ve got alpha amylase so this is not the right product to add mid fermen?

Na alpha is to break starch down into sugar, simply speaking because I dont fully understand the science of it.

You would use alpha if, for example, you were trying to make vodka out of potatoes or make whisky from corn.

 

[Dorst]

Perhaps you can still order a satchet of glucoamylase CC. Adding the alpha amylase to the fermenter will most likely not do much to the final product.

 

[-Bezza-]

I too have a soft spot for Japanese dry lagers. Asahi and sushi is a real treat!

Keen to hear how you get on with brewing these as I'd like to try at one point. Your approach has triggered a thought in my little brain though. I understand that Japanese lagers use rice which is what ultimately results in the amylase. It then made me think that sake follows a similar principal and you can get the amylase in packets for that, so perhaps that might be worth a bit of exploration if the amylase you used didn't achieve what is wanted. Just thinking it might be a bit more "specific".

 

[Cheshire Cat]

Perhaps you can still order a satchet of glucoamylase CC. Adding the alpha amylase to the fermenter will most likely not do much to the final product.

I’ve ordered 2 sachets of gluco from Amazon and thanks again for the help.