Adding extra hops/bitterness to a kit?

[Phil_MG]

After the several kits I've done (15 or so now) I've come to the realisation that I'm a big hop lover in both the bitterness but also the extra flavours that it imparts. The problem being that I've never quite found a kit which I've been happy with the hop flavours/bitterness levels.
I've tried dry hopping a couple or so now and I've been pleased with the extra flavour that I get, but I'm still lacking that lip smacking bitterness that I love.
Currently I don't have the funds to go AG brewing quite yet but I wondered if there was something which I could do to get some extra hop flavour?

My question is...... Could I get some hops, boil them up in a small amount of water (1-1.5 litres) in a standard saucepan, and chuck that into the FV before I add the kit stuff? I'll in theory get the extra fresh bitterness that I love, and I will be able to add some aroma hops towards the end of the boil for some extra flavour?
Are there any pitfalls to boiling hops in plain water? Will I struggle with that volume of water to extract all the bitterness? Any ideas on amounts of hops etc?

Thanks in advance for any help or suggestions

 

[RobWalker]

yep, many people do it. as a rule, 60 mins of boiling will give a bittering quality, 30 mins for flavour and bittering, 10 mins for aroma.

in plain water, not particularly anything wrong with it - the only real downfall is you need more hops than if you boiled in a large volume.

There's no real guide, because bitterness varies based on how much malt is in there.

10g 5% AA in 1 Gallon water for 60 mins = 1.5 IBU in a 4% all-malt beer, no sugar added.

10g 7.5% AA in 1 Gallon water for 60 mins = 2.2 IBU in a 4% all-malt beer, no sugar added.

Failing that there's isometrized hop extract which will add more bitterness.

 

[Phil_MG]

Ok cheers for that, I'm thinking for my next I'm going to have a go at the "Better Brew" Czech Pilsner....

Any idea what sort of result I'll get if I do the following in about 1.5 litres of water...

10g Admiral full 60 mins boil
10g Saaz last 10 mins boil

Chuck that in the FV and then add the kit afterwards.

I've used the isomerised hops a couple of times before, but I get the feeling they're not that easy to get hold of in different varieties, and they'll require nearly the same amount of time steeping in hot water anyway?

 

[RobWalker]

At least as far as calculations go, you'll only be adding about 1 IBU with 100g of Admiral at that volume.

3L of water will give you 13.8 extra IBU's from 100g Admiral.

Boil them in a gallon, and you're looking at 3.9 IBU per 10g.

 

[Phil_MG]

Hmmm looking at that then I'll have to invest in a 10l stock pot from Ikea!

 

[RobWalker]

I'm not trying to be awkward here, lol - sorry - but if you get one slightly bigger, it's ideal for extract brewing. Maybe you could move on to extract altogether - maybe now, maybe later. You'll certainly be able to brew something hoppy enough that way!

 

[Phil_MG]

Yeah I see what you're saying, but I think if I was going to get a boiler/pan big enough for an extract brew, I'd go the extra hog and get a mash tun too. Extract brew requires a cooling coil too which is starting to get a bit beyond my budget at the moment.

I'm struggling to understand the concept still really, why is it that having more water in the boil equates to more IBU's? Surely using a smaller amount of water would extract the same amount of bitterness but just more concentrated? I'll be dissolving it back down anyway when it goes in the FV?

 

[RobWalker]

You need a bigger volume to fully extract the oils from the hops - don't ask me why exactly, but the less you boil, the less bitterness you get from the hops because less of the oils are extracted.

Extract brewing doesn't actually require much from kit brewing but a big pan - you can cool your wort by topping up with cold water, it doesn't drop the proteins out like a cooler but it still works! The only reason I'm suggesting this is because it looks to me like you want to spread your wings a bit - it's as simple as boiling up some malt, hops and water for an hour in a 10L pan, then treating the resulting wort as if it were the same as a home brew kit.

I even brew all grain without a coil, just chuck it into a food safe vessel, place under airlock and chuck it in an ice bath. But some people might not like that and will recommend against it :thumb: hahah.

Also, you didn't happen to work at MG Rover did you? Or just a fan?

 

[Phil_MG]

Ok, Just I've done a couple of calculators including the site calculator which shows if I have...

10g of hops...
14.5% AA (Admiral)
22% Utilisatation (Not sure what this should be exactly but I'm keeping it a constant for the sake of this calculation)
23l Brew length

This gives me 12.6 IBU's

If I go with the above, but alter the brew length to 1.5l then it shoots up to a whopping 193.3 IBU's which is why I'm confused?

I'm lowering the volume of water, keeping the hops at a constant so surely the strength of it will increase? I'll then be adding it to the FV and diluting it back down to the full brew length, adding the sugars and starting fermentation.
Am I missing something?

No I'm not an ex employee, but a big fan. I'm one of the moderators over on mg-rover.org too

 

[Devonhomebrew]

for kits i would say isomised hop oil

 

[RobWalker]

Brew length is how much beer you are making at the start of fermentation after all boiling etc is done (5 gallons) and is accounting for the size of the batch and the amount of malt - it's not how much water you are boiling the hops in. You're calculating 10g of Admiral in a 1.5 litre batch of home brew - you need the Boil Volume, not Brew Length.

I can't find much calculator or chart wise online, so I suggest just tapping recipes in and setting the boil volume to the volume of water you are using. I've done so, and the minimum looks to be around 0.7 gallons for half decent utilization. Don't worry too much, just boil the kettle, fill up a pot and let them cook. You can also chuck the home brew kit in to gloop it up nicely near the end.

 

[Phil_MG]

Ok cheers for that. I thought there was some confusion along the way hehe. I've just been reading too that boiling hops on their own isn't a good idea in terms of flavour. I could make the kit up I suppose, take out the wort into my largest pan and boil that with extra hops. Let it cool for an hour or so and dump it back in the fv, then pitch yeast?

 

[RobWalker]

You're better to top up with cold water, or have the top up water ready in your FV treated, than letting it sit and cool on the side. Doing that increases the risk of infection massively.

You can boil up the kit with the extra hops though, not sure if there are any adverse effects but I don't see why there would be.

 

[TRXnMe]

The IBU value probably has summat to do with what the water can absorb, do you remember saturated solutions from school chemistry? usually involving copper sulphate and a bunsen burner :)


LO Phil, R75 Diesel Connie Tourer here, nice to see another brewer owning a sensible vehicle :) 1.8, V6 or diesel?

 

[Phil_MG]

Diesel here. Only sensible one to get but i'd love a 260 Totally different beast to the rest of the range anyway. Have a look over on mg-rover.org if you get bored

 

[Pearlfisher]

I do Forester's kits from POPS homebrew shop in Cheltenham. They consist of 2 1.5kg cans of Coopers malt extract , vacuum packed hops and aroma hops in muslin bags and Nottingham yeast.

The hops are boiled for 30 minutes plus another 10 minutes with the aroma hops added.

The instructions say further bitterness can be made by boiling the hops for longer , also if the kit is made with less water , this also increases the bitterness but of course increases the ABV.

 

[TRXnMe]

Diesel here. Only sensible one to get but i'd love a 260 Totally different beast to the rest of the range anyway. Have a look over on mg-rover.org if you get bored

I'm a reader, not a poster over there, but I'm there :)

Same name.

 

[Phil_MG]

Just tried my Betterbrew Czech Pilsner today after 7 days in the FV and the hop flavour is phenomenal! Can't recommend this method enough and it's perfect for anyone who wants to add some extra bite to a kit without breaking the bank.
Out of all the kits I've done so far, I've never had one taste so fresh and vibrant as this one.

Basically using a small hop bag, and the biggest pan I have, I brought about 2 litres of water to the boil.

Add 15g of Admiral for an hours boiling
Add 15g of Saaz for 10 mins boiling
Chuck in FV
Continue with normal kit instructions.

 

[calumscott]

:) Sounds like fun! The BB Pils is great as it is so this will be a proper hop bomb!

(in other words, right up my street...)