A little brewery research

[paulpj26]

Could anyone give me a ruff figure as to how much a micro-brewery sells the average firkin to a pub for? or more precisely how much profit they make per firkin, say for a 4% ABV? I appreciate this can vary greatly but I'm just wanting a ball park figure.

Cheers! :

 

[jamesb]

For sale to the pub, direct from the brewery, anything from 45-90 (depending on beer type).

Profit? Depends on the brewery and their overheads. Not a great deal though I can tell you. It will depend on beer duty, rent, gas/electric costs, amount of times they brew, efficiency of the brewplant, what ingrediants go into the beer, etc, etc.

If you're thinking about starting a microbrewery, get hold of a copy of "The Microbrewers Handbook" by Ted Brunning.

If you're a landlord trying to get your beer cheaper then sod off We sell it as cheaply as we can.

 

[paulpj26]

:lol: I'm entertaining the idea of starting my own brewery (it wouldn't be for a number of years though, need a lot more brewing experience first! plus money!) and I'm just trying to get some (very) rough figures together to see how feasible it all is.


:

 

[lukesharpe]

"The Microbrewers Handbook" is a great read. Might put you off setting up though.

Another great resource is the IBD. www.ibd.org.uk

They do professional brewing courses and exams for General Certificate in Brewing, Diploma and Masterbrewer. All City and Guilds accredited stuff.

Think the exams were about £190 and there is a five day course for £500. They are doing distance learning courses as well. Tim O'Rourke is the guy that runs the courses. PM me if you want his contact email.

Was going to do the exams and course last winter, but was a bit short of funds. I'm now building a 100L shiny, so it will have to be put off again.

Ollie

 

[jamesb]

:lol: I'm entertaining the idea of starting my own brewery (it wouldn't be for a number of years though, need a lot more brewing experience first! plus money!) and I'm just trying to get some (very) rough figures together to see how feasible it all is.

It's a bit of a turbulant industry at the moment. I suspect a lot of things are going to change in the nest few years.

 

[paulpj26]

:lol: I'm entertaining the idea of starting my own brewery (it wouldn't be for a number of years though, need a lot more brewing experience first! plus money!) and I'm just trying to get some (very) rough figures together to see how feasible it all is.

It's a bit of a turbulant industry at the moment. I suspect a lot of things are going to change in the nest few years.

Do you think if CAMRA are succesful with the pub ties issue it will make much difference to micro-breweries?

 

[jamesb]

Do you think if CAMRA are succesful with the pub ties issue it will make much difference to micro-breweries?

Honestly? Yes.

However, it will mean that the big boys will reduce their wholesale price to make their beer look attractive to all the owners of the freeholds. And they can produce beer cheaper than we can. I'm not sure how it's going to pan out.

 

[paulpj26]

Lets hope quality wins out!

 

[jamesb]

Lets hope quality wins out!

The boys ARE quality beer. It's hard to make beer with such consistency and balance constantly.

Taste on the other hand...

 

[paulpj26]

"The Microbrewers Handbook" is a great read. Might put you off setting up though.

Another great resource is the IBD. http://www.ibd.org.uk

They do professional brewing courses and exams for General Certificate in Brewing, Diploma and Masterbrewer. All City and Guilds accredited stuff.

Think the exams were about £190 and there is a five day course for £500. They are doing distance learning courses as well. Tim O'Rourke is the guy that runs the courses. PM me if you want his contact email.

Was going to do the exams and course last winter, but was a bit short of funds. I'm now building a 100L shiny, so it will have to be put off again.

Ollie

Cheers for the info Ollie, can't really afford it at the moment (wife wants a new bathroom and carpets ) but may be worth looking at for next year.

 

[paulpj26]

Lets hope quality wins out!

The boys ARE quality beer. It's hard to make beer with such consistency and balance constantly.

Taste on the other hand...

I guess I meant taste :lol: .

 

[Aleman]

There are fewer and fewer pubs that are actually tied to breweries, which was the main result of the Monopolies and Mergers commission back at the end of the 80's. They have achieved the aim of breaking the tie between the brewery and the pub . . . great look at the improvement in quality and taste and the variety of real ale we have in our pubs now . . . . :hmm: . . . . Hang on nothing has changed :evil: What happened was that the breweries 'sold' the pubs to pub management companies . . . which were under the same umbrella organisation as the brewery . . . The brewery supplies beer to any 'pub' that want to buy it . . .but actually at a 'discount' to those that are owned by the 'retail' arm.

What about free houses I hear you cry . . . . They are free to buy beer from wherever they like . . . except that the pub management companies have offered improvement loans to the pubs for refurbishment/improvements . . . that the pub pays back with a premium on the beer from that brewery they sell . . . and when you work out the interest rates for pubs that don't sell a lot it is in the order of 10,000% :shock: No, I kid you not!!

Sometimes even brew pubs are screwed over by the breweries/wholesalers. I know of at least one that sells its beer to a wholesaler, and has to buy it back from the wholesaler (at a significant cost) to sell it in their pub . . .Otherwise the retailer will not take thier beer and sell it in the area.

Will CAMRA change it ? . . . I hope so . . . but I'm not holding my breath . . . there are just too many ways for the brewing companies and wholesalers to screw the pubs and craft breweries.

 

[paulpj26]

There are fewer and fewer pubs that are actually tied to breweries, which was the main result of the Monopolies and Mergers commission back at the end of the 80's. They have achieved the aim of breaking the tie between the brewery and the pub . . . great look at the improvement in quality and taste and the variety of real ale we have in our pubs now . . . . :hmm: . . . . Hang on nothing has changed :evil: What happened was that the breweries 'sold' the pubs to pub management companies . . . which were under the same umbrella organisation as the brewery . . . The brewery supplies beer to any 'pub' that want to buy it . . .but actually at a 'discount' to those that are owned by the 'retail' arm.

What about free houses I hear you cry . . . . They are free to buy beer from wherever they like . . . except that the pub management companies have offered improvement loans to the pubs for refurbishment/improvements . . . that the pub pays back with a premium on the beer from that brewery they sell . . . and when you work out the interest rates for pubs that don't sell a lot it is in the order of 10,000% :shock: No, I kid you not!!

Sometimes even brew pubs are screwed over by the breweries/wholesalers. I know of at least one that sells its beer to a wholesaler, and has to buy it back from the wholesaler (at a significant cost) to sell it in their pub . . .Otherwise the retailer will not take thier beer and sell it in the area.

Will CAMRA change it ? . . . I hope so . . . but I'm not holding my breath . . . there are just too many ways for the brewing companies and wholesalers to screw the pubs and craft breweries.

It's no wonder so many pubs are going out of business when there's such a strangle hold over them! :evil: We can only hope that CAMRA manage to keep on hacking away at the big boys to try and give a better deal for the smaller breweries/freehold pubs, but as you said Aleman I won't hold my breath. I guess the danger is that if CAMRA aren't successful or it takes too long to get sorted out there might not be a pub trade in to save (with the rate pubs are closing!).

 

[Muddydisco]

Hi Paul just noticed your Signiture
They do beer and very nice beer but only sold in Denmark around christmas Called carlsberg christmas ale @ 8% it's wonderful!!!

http://www.carlsberggroup.com/brands/Pages/SemperArdensChristmasAle.aspx

 

[paulpj26]

Well there you are, I never realised Carlsberg was so cultured :lol: unfortunately the lager by the "big boys" (sorry that sounds really camp!) brewed in this country leaves a lot to be desired.

Is there a lot of difference in taste in the Carlsberg brewed over in Denmark as oppose to over here?

 

[Sussex Hopburner]

Well there you are, I never realised Carlsberg was so cultured :lol: unfortunately the lager by the "big boys" (sorry that sounds really camp!) brewed in this country leaves a lot to be desired.

Is there a lot of difference in taste in the Carlsberg brewed over in Denmark as oppose to over here?

There's a massive difference.

Carlberg in Denmark, much like Tuborg, is creamy, full of body and with a refreshing taste. As some one who normally only drinks bitter, I cant wait to get on the ferry to have a pint.