Kits- "Twang" theory

pms67 · Oct 23, 2017

Someone posted an experiment regarding using boiling water when making up a kit versus luke warm water ,can't remember the results but what are people's theories regarding the twang everybody talks about?
I think it just the taste of the concentrated wort, I can now taste it in every kit , I have a Golden Stag and a Cwtch bottled and I can taste the underlying taste of the wort.
Anyone else know??

AdeDunn · Oct 23, 2017

All I know is, the last three kits I have done I have mixed the wort into water at 78-80 degrees C rather than boiling, and of the 2 that I've tasted the flavour has been clean of anything that shouldn't be there, to my palate anyway. ALL of the kits I brewed prior to these I mixed with boiling water, and they ALL (even a Coopers Mexican Cerveza) have a slightly unpleasant background flavour of black treacle/liquorice... My wife is enjoying them, but to me they're just meh.

The 2 kits I like are both cheapo ones that I tweaked too, and are at least as good as anything I have tasted in a bottle or mini keg (not counting Titanic Plum Porter.... lol).

So yeah, I suspect at least part of the "twang" is from mixing with too hot water, as end of the day the wort has already been boiled once surely? You have to wonder too the effect that been mixed with boiling water once again has on the hop flavours too? Maybe you are right too, and the reason you can taste the concentrated wort is increased by mixing with boiling water? All I can give you is my opinion, which is anecdotal at best.

I read about that experiment too by the way, it was the reason I decided to try a lower temperature myself.

chesters-mild · Oct 23, 2017

It may be the chemicals that your local water dept. use to treat your water, I and most other AG brewers use a campden tablet to remove clorine etc pre the boil, this may work on kits as well, any kit users tried this ?
Cheers

pms67 · Oct 23, 2017

It's not that mate ,my first BIAB with the same water confirmed that,I couldn't believe how fresh the beer tasted.

Thumper · Oct 23, 2017

chesters-mild said:
It may be the chemicals that your local water dept. use to treat your water, I and most other AG brewers use a campden tablet to remove clorine etc pre the boil, this may work on kits as well, any kit users tried this ?
Cheers

I use bottled water and make sure I boil that to mix the extract with rather than tap water. I still get an underlying flavour that I can only assume is this "homebrew twang" I've heard so much about, though I can't say I'd describe it as liquorice...

Full disclosure, this is a datapool of two brews, so it's hardly conclusive. But I'm fairly convinced it's LME rather than water that gives it this flavour. Especially since I've seen so many AG brewers claim that AG brews don't get the twang.

pms67 · Oct 23, 2017

I agree, it's the taste of concentrated LME
Happy to be proven wrong though

Clint · Oct 23, 2017

I've just moved to ag. My kits have all been drinkable with no real off flavours. For want of a better description I'd say they were a bjt one dimension. The two can kits were better especially the youngs. My ag beers too,I feel,taste fresher and have more flavour. I get the same feed back from samples I've given out too...and strangely, requests for more!
I have never treated my water. The local tap water tastes fine to me but that's not to say it doesnt need adjusting mineral wise. Something I am trying to comprehend! !

simon12 · Oct 23, 2017

I have read many posts on this in the past. Kits that use alot of sugar are 1 issue, another that come up alot is that its flavour picked up from the metal tins but no idea if its true but some people have claimed if you get it in the bulk 25Kg plastic containers you don't get the "twang". I have never heard it claimed its anything to do with water temp.

Sadfield · Oct 23, 2017

Tastes to me like it is every kit or extract brew, a dull tang as back note to even the best examples, and horribly accentuated in those brews with other faults. A byproduct of the manufacturing process of reducing/drying wort, most probably staling. In the same way instant tea, coffee, soup etc isn't a substitute for the freshly made product.

Buy the freshest kits or extract you can, get the rest of your process as controlled as possible. I'd avoid hoppy pre-hopped kits, and hop them yourself or use bittering extract. And if you boil any wort, boil the largest volume possible to avoid caramelisation.

Sent from my E5823 using Tapatalk

terrym · Oct 23, 2017

Last time this got it's own thread here www.thehomebrewforum.co.uk/showthread.php?t=72454
I said...

"Homebrew twang gets recycled regularly
Last big threads here
http://www.thehomebrewforum.co.uk/sh...d.php?p=676482
and here
http://www.thehomebrewforum.co.uk/sh...ad.php?t=68929
All the usual theories come out to play when its discussed including
- using table sugar
- using liquid malt extract rather than grain
- cheap kits
- not enough conditioning
- use of tap water
- yeast used
- cleaner/sanitiser
Everyone has their favourite, mine is cheap liquid malt extract.
However as far as I'm concerned, no-one really knows, as it would have been sorted out long ago."

Sadly nothing's changed :doh:

MyQul · Oct 23, 2017

I'd possibly agree with sadfield - stale LME. I once bought some stale mild ale malt. I couldnt be bothered to take it back so I just brewed with it. It had a twang, just a like a kit.

MyQul · Oct 23, 2017

terrym said:
Last time this got it's own thread here www.thehomebrewforum.co.uk/showthread.php?t=72454
I said...

"Homebrew twang gets recycled regularly
Last big threads here
http://www.thehomebrewforum.co.uk/sh...d.php?p=676482
and here
http://www.thehomebrewforum.co.uk/sh...ad.php?t=68929
All the usual theories come out to play when its discussed including
- using table sugar
- using liquid malt extract rather than grain
- cheap kits
- not enough conditioning
- use of tap water
- yeast used
- cleaner/sanitiser
Everyone has their favourite, mine is cheap liquid malt extract.
However as far as I'm concerned, no-one really knows, as it would have been sorted out long ago."

Sadly nothing's changed

As you know terry (cuz you've been here long enough), there are certain topics on the forum that get recycled such as this one on HB twang. I think with each knew recycling of the topic we get fresh opinions, views, knowledge and input from newer members into the topic. So who know, maybe one day th riddle of HB twang will be solved :party:

Thumper · Oct 23, 2017

simon12 said:
I have read many posts on this in the past. Kits that use alot of sugar are 1 issue, another that come up alot is that its flavour picked up from the metal tins but no idea if its true but some people have claimed if you get it in the bulk 25Kg plastic containers you don't get the "twang". I have never heard it claimed its anything to do with water temp.

I've done one kit with sugar additions, and one "two can" kit with no sugar additions. Both had the twang.

AdeDunn · Oct 23, 2017

Maybe the cause hasn't been found yet as we're all tasting different things with different causes?

That'd explain why I taste something different to you folks. I've been lucky to get nice long dates on my kits.

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terrym · Oct 23, 2017

MyQul said:
So who know, maybe one day th riddle of HB twang will be solved :party:

I hope so.
We can all rest easy at that point, well, some of us can :lol:

Sadfield · Oct 23, 2017

I think there is an element of not wanting to accept it is an inherent issue with the fundamental ingredient of non-grain brewing that fuels various theories as to the cause. Despite it being accepted as not affecting all-grain brewers. See the other thread regarding AG brewers not wanting to go back to kits/extract to save time and effort.

Sadly, I think this leads to brewers chopping and changing kits and ingredients, instead of focusing on doing everything else as best they can. The stuff that makes a difference to all brewers, yeast management, controlled fermentation and minimising oxidation at packaging. I think it is neglect here, that amplifies the base issue, as most kit brewers run on the most basic of setups with too many variables. AG and good extract brewers tend to match the time investment with better fermentation and packaging setups.

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GhostShip · Oct 23, 2017

IÃ¢â¬â¢ve made three kits so far. The first two (Wherry and St PeterÃ¢â¬â¢s Ruby Red) both had a strong home brew twang. The third, Festival Golden Stag has it, but itÃ¢â¬â¢s less noticeable.

I can tell you what doesnÃ¢â¬â¢t cause it - the water. My first kit used tap water, the second used natural spring water. Both had the same twang.

The boiling water theory is interesting and I also think temperature control could be a reason - I donÃ¢â¬â¢t have any control at the moment.

IÃ¢â¬â¢m sure the brewing companies must know the likely cause, but maybe itÃ¢â¬â¢s not in their best interests to make it known.

Linalmeemow · Oct 23, 2017

I'm convinced it's LME. I did kits, then DME with steeped grains and now AG and the twang was never present in my DME brews. It's something about the syrup...

Saisonator · Oct 23, 2017

Maybe it's either from the condensing process or taste from the tin.
Probably the former.

Pavros · Oct 24, 2017

chesters-mild said:
It may be the chemicals that your local water dept. use to treat your water, I and most other AG brewers use a campden tablet to remove clorine etc pre the boil, this may work on kits as well, any kit users tried this ?
Cheers

I always add a campden tablet to my water before mixing it with a kit.

I also put a couple of litres of cold treated water into my fv first.
Then add the warmed kit extract.
Then add boiling water to the tins to clean them out and empty these into the fv. By the time the boiled water hits the fv from the tins, it is no longer boiling.

However, I suspect that stale extract may partly be the cause of off flavours because we have no idea how long the kit has been standing at the factory or on the retailer's shelves. We also have no idea/control over how or what temperatures the kit has been stored at. Or what temperatures the kit was subjected to in a delivery van (these can get very, very hot during the summer).

Kits- "Twang" theory

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