Potential Micro pub homebrew shop & nano brewery

I have been looking for some type of beer shop for a while and just viewed a potential premises in Edenbridge. My idea is to have seating for around 12-15 people to drink in. Selling cask ales and bottles both drink in and take away. small amount of home brew equipment more can be got in to order. In the back will be a small brewery likely along the lines of a large homebrew setup with 200L pots. Once a month a group buy for homebrewers making little markup on the trade prices. Once a month open brewery day. Regular various home brew demonstrations. Brewery rental, cask dispense rental with cask sales.
Very rough floor plan


What do you think, any ideas?

Another try on floor plan

Simon
A few comments...
How do you get through to the smoking area, through the lobby?
The lobby and toilet looks very small, and the door to the lobby fouls the sink.
Presume you are happy with only 15 drinkers. It can't be very many more if you provide even a few small tables and chairs. Or will there be shelving on the walls, and folks stand up.
The rear shop area looks quite small if you have a till, casks, sink and need access through and in it.
How do you get stuff delivered? Is there rear access or do you have to come through from the front?
I know there is no HB shop locally, but what the drinkers competition like?

Great idea and something I would live in if I had one locally.

I think it's a great idea. I've been looking in to a micro pub/beer shop for quite some time now, it wouldn't have the homebrew/brewery side to it as the place I'm looking at is quite a bit smaller. Luckily for me, there isn't a decent pub anywhere near where the empty unit is and there aren't any decent beer shops for about 40 miles.

Simon, I think terrym has some interesting and valid points, but I like the basic idea a lot. If I lived over your side of our county I'd probably visit quite a lot. :thumb:
Any thoughts about a second place? Maybe in the east..? :smile:

terrym said:

Simon
A few comments...
How do you get through to the smoking area, through the lobby?
The lobby and toilet looks very small, and the door to the lobby fouls the sink.
Presume you are happy with only 15 drinkers. It can't be very many more if you provide even a few small tables and chairs. Or will there be shelving on the walls, and folks stand up.
The rear shop area looks quite small if you have a till, casks, sink and need access through and in it.
How do you get stuff delivered? Is there rear access or do you have to come through from the front?
I know there is no HB shop locally, but what the drinkers competition like?

Click to expand...

Apparently due to health and safety or something though you can it would not be allowed to access the smoking area via the lobby, nut I think we will anyway.
The lobby and toilet are are small but contry to the floor plan the sink is behind the door when its open and does not touch it.
Only 15 is not ideal and I will try to get as many as possible in the space and look at it in more detail once/if a lease is confirmed.
The rear shop is small but I think it will all fit, there is a mistake the sink is already in the next room so will leave it there.
There is a rear door but it goes onto someone elses land not a road so all deliveries will need to go through the front.
Its very close to all the other pubs in Edenbridge town centre and the nearest even has a "Craft beer" sign. I hope we will all drive more trade to each other as well as ourselves.

As you point out its far from ideal but I think its all doable and the rent isn't bad.

BTW theres a free pint with your name on if it ever opens.

marlon said:

Simon, I think terrym has some interesting and valid points, but I like the basic idea a lot. If I lived over your side of our county I'd probably visit quite a lot. :thumb:
Any thoughts about a second place? Maybe in the east..? :smile:

Click to expand...

It it works out I will certainly look at opening more.

Where is all the used grain going, are you planning to take it out through the front. How often do you expect to be brewing?

I will take the spent grain to a farmer I know who is on the way home and yes everything has to go in and out the front. I would do full 4ish firkins at the most twice a week more likely once. General rubbish disposal is an issue I never thought of before as there is nowhere out the front to have any bins and the pavement is narrow.

I like the concept Simon but I'm afraid the premises don't seem workable to me.
Rubbish storage/disposal.
Access to the smoking area.
The office having three doors in it reduces usable space.
You've not shown an actual bar, I think you need one that three or four people can stand at during the quiet times, solitary drinkers don't generally like sitting down.

.."very little mark up"...how will this pay for itself,insurance,rent/mortgage,vat,duty,council tax,food safe regs,fire regs...and all the other leeches that will wriggle out of the woodwork?
Believe me....it's a minefield running a business. ..especially when you invite "Joe public"...I haven't had the pleasure of adding booze though....

Clint said:

.."very little mark up"...how will this pay for itself,insurance,rent/mortgage,vat,duty,council tax,food safe regs,fire regs...and all the other leeches that will wriggle out of the woodwork?
Believe me....it's a minefield running a business. ..especially when you invite "Joe public"...I haven't had the pleasure of adding booze though....

Click to expand...

Very little mark up referred only to the monthly home brew group buy. Insurance is the 1 thing I have no idea on the the rest I know at least enough (council tax will be free under small business rate relief) and am aware there is going to be many hidden costs. I have run a business before though never involved the public in a face to face capacity. I am looking forward to it and thanks for your input. I only emailed a provisional offer to the landlord today so its early stages but wanted some input to the idea in general.
Cheers

BarnBrian said:

I like the concept Simon but I'm afraid the premises don't seem workable to me.
Rubbish storage/disposal.
Access to the smoking area.
The office having three doors in it reduces usable space.
You've not shown an actual bar, I think you need one that three or four people can stand at during the quiet times, solitary drinkers don't generally like sitting down.

Click to expand...

Rubbish is something I need to work out, theres other shops there so it can't be impossible.
The office I don't even know how it will be used yet and may have to be access to the smoking area.
As for actual bar I don't see there being one in the traditional sense and not exactly sure how that will work.
Cheers for the input.

Ok..my post on reflection sounded a bit harsh...I assume you expected and don't mind this having as you say business experience. I too think the premises look a bit cramped for what you want to do...shops etc look huge empty!! Perhaps you could leave the shop bit for now and concentrate on the micro pub side to judge interest...the dual aspect may a times require dual staff..
I do however wish you every success! !!

I take it you've looked at the micro pub website? Perhaps a visit to a few to pick the landlord brains?

http://www.micropubassociation.co.uk/

It is hard to judge the size, I have been to a few really small micro pubs and love the idea. They have all had shelving on at least one wall for bottles to drink in or take away. You usually find beer being served through the wall i.e. taps on the wall/fake wall.

Does this premise have a licence of alcohol?

I think it's a great idea and you will make it work. So long as the punters get quality beer and great service, it will succeed. Too many pubs fail on these two basic attributes regardless of their size etc.

Good luck with your venture, I wish I had the balls to do something like this.

If you are limited to taking stuff in and out thru the front i would do away with the two doors and the small dividing wall and increase the size of one door slightly and brick up the rest of it, commercial real estate is priced by the square foot and having walls take up space where you could have a couple of tables turning over 10-20k a year each can be the difference between a bottom line showing a profit or a loss.

Food is also a big earner, not only does it draw custom in but it keeps them there, it may not be in your plans for now but do consider that option for future expansion, it doesn't have to be gastro pub of the year material but even basic chicken and chips in a basket type stuff if done well can pull in a steady flow of customers.

Selling on surplus, if you find you can't shift enough of what you make are you prepared to deliver kegs/bottles to other pubs? This means either delivering it all yourself or having to pay someone to do it for you which would be at a huge cost.

Staff, can you as a startup afford to pay staff, it's all well and good thinking you can mange to do it all yourself but those 12-15 hour days soon start to take there toll on you and family, bringing someone in as a shop worker is ok but are they also gonna have the same work ethic for going in and starting to heat water for a brew or cleaning the bar during quieter periods and if the bar is busy can they also watch the shop side of things when you aren't around to supervise? You will find that cleaners want to clean, shop workers want to keep shop, bar staff want to keep bar and brewers want to brew, sourcing staff who want to do all of those things and more when it is not written into there contract well good luck with that :)

simon12 said:

BTW theres a free pint with your name on if it ever opens.

Click to expand...

Brilliant thanks for that. :thumb:
However having looked at the floorplan again, and questions others have made and your responses I have to say that I do feel the layout is less than ideal for your business objectives as it stands, without some structural modifications, and even then you may have problems. And any mods will come at your expense, even assuming that the owner will allow it.
If it were me I would be making absolutely sure I had all the potential problem areas covered with workable solutions and a business plan specific to these premises before I signed any contract, rather than be carried away with understandable enthusiasm and a belief that you can make it work irrespective.
Nonetheless whatever you do I do wish you well.