Notes on first AG brew with all-in-one system - any advice?

Hi all,

After a couple of small batches using some basic kit, I decided to purchase an ACE microbrewery and finally, last night I used it for the first time.

The recipe was a simple APA as follows. I aimed for a half batch, 11L in the FV:
Grain: Maris Otter (2.5kg), Carapils (115g), Caramel/Crystal Malt (170g)
Hops: Citra (7g 60min, 7g 15min, 7g 0min, 7g dry hop 7 days) and Cascade (7g 15min, 7g 0min, 14g dry hop 7 days).
Yeast: WLP001
Water: Ashbeck from Tesco

My plan was to start off the mash with 7.22 litres of water. But since the ACE has 6.5 litres of dead space (water that does not hit the grain basket) I started off with 13.72 litres.

Mashed for 60 min with the pump on from the beginning, temperature fairly constant throughout the process.

Since we had those extra 6.5 litres at the beginning, I only heated up 3.8 litres of water at 78C for the sparge (my spreadsheet said I would need 10.32 litres of water for the sparge).

I took a gravity reading before the sparge: 1.035 which worried me as the recipe said I should get about 1.052 pre-boil.

So I sparged those 3.8 litres and then I sparge using the wort itself 6 times, in batches of 3.5 litres to try to extract more sugars from the grain.

My last reading before the boil was 1.040.

I started the boil with 15L. Set the boiler to max power, 2500W, and got a vigorous boil going. I realised it was going to be too vigorous but decided not to change it with the idea of testing it out so that I can adjust next time.

I threw in the immersion chiller for the last 15min. Once the boil was over, it took 15 min to chill the wort.

Gravity reading post boil was 1.055. Which is almost bang on what the recipe says. Except that instead of 11L I ended with 9L in the FV - so not even a half batch.

I pitched the yeast at 21C, not the full packet as only 9L. Not much going on in the FV at the minute, but it may be too early.

If you got this far, thanks for reading :)

So, things I know I need to improve on:
- Too vigorous boil. Lost about 6L. I will set the power to 1800W next time.
- Efficiency. I suppose the reason I got 1.055 gravity post boil is because I lost way too much water. Which means I need to get better at extracting sugars or I need to add more grain. I used crash grain from The Malt Miller by the way. I noticed the water from the pump hit the grain in the same place throughout the mash. Perhaps I could rotate the grain basket every 15 minutes or so during the mash?
- Yeast. I kept the (liquid) yeast in a cupboard for a while (a couple of weeks) until I read it that do be kept in the fridge. :nono: . So not sure how healthy it really was when I pitched it. For ease of mind, I might use a yeast starter next time.

Any tips or comments will be much appreciated.

This was my first time using the ACE and I am still a newbie in this world so I was not expecting my first batch to come out perfect. Next one should (will) be better :whistle:

Thanks!
Enrique

I set my boil to 1800w and I lose about 4.5-5ltr on a 90 min boil

dps51 said:

I set my boil to 1800w and I lose about 4.5-5ltr on a 90 min boil

Click to expand...

Thanks. That makes sense. Had I done that I would have ended up with 11.5-12 L on the FV which is closer to what I was aiming for.

Actually, since I was aiming for 11 L, maybe that calculation shows that I would have been 0.5L or 1L over, which again would explain the low gravity I was getting?

Another question: during the boil, do you keep the lid on at all times?

Haven't used a ace so can't help there but it sounds like it's better suited to a full brew length.

Can you stir the grain during the sparge? That may help and did you stir during the mash? That will also help efficiency.

Leon103 said:

Can you stir the grain during the sparge? That may help and did you stir during the mash? That will also help efficiency.

Click to expand...

During the mash, the ACE's pump was on, which should circulate the wort around. I am thinking about rotating the grain basket every so often so that what comes out of the pump hits as much of the grain as possible.

I will stir the grain during the sparge next time. Other people using the ACE are not having such a poor efficiency so it has to be something I am not doing right

Thanks for the tip!

Likewise I don't know anything about the Ace, but after you've used the setup a few times you'll get an idea of what works and what efficiency you can get. You can then adjust the amount of grain you use.

I just did a BIAB brew this morning and hit my OG spot on, got 68% efficiency which seems to be my norm. When I started my recipes were calculated for 70% or even 75% efficiency, so I always ended up with a low OG: now 68% is plugged into my brewing software (Brewmate) and I hit my target every time.

I always stir at the start, mid-way and end of the mash. And I measure my mash pH and adjust it to get close to the magic 5.4, might be worth checking your pH (I use litmus paper). A teaspoon of Gyspum in the mash is usually enough to get mine right, although I have used a little CRS in the past.

Sounds like a great brewday, a few teething issues but thats all

imho
try placing a layer or ad hoc 'bowl' of punctured tin foil on the grain bed to disrupt the return flow and scatter it all over the grain bed for a better distribution and to avoid channeling.
start with zero punctures and make em 1 by 1 all over the grain bed until the level drop stops and the flow down is in tune with the pumped return.


dont bother with the extra sparge with the kettle contents, but perhaps factor in the extra boil off with extra sparge liquor if you cave the capacity?

the initial mash in is crucial, make sure you get all the grain mixed in and there are 0 dough balls as these will never convert if they remain dry.

have fun..

I leave my lid of also I don't stir the grain during the sparge

darrellm said:

You can then adjust the amount of grain you use.

Click to expand...

Thanks mate. That makes a lot of sense. I know I need to stick to the recipe and try it a few (many) times to understand the process and my own system.

it took me a few brews to get to know the system but still got a bit to learn

Hi!
Have you tried restricting the flow of the pump during the mash?
Looking at a video of a similar one-pot system, the grain was totally immersed in the liquid, so the position of the return pipe from the pump would have a negligible effect.
I use a recirculating mash system (not one-pot) and I use a steamer basket (Wilko's) to spread the return from the pump to disturb the grain bed as little as possible.

That's awesome man. When I did my first brew I didn't hit my numbers because I thought my strike water was too high. Sounds like you didn't have a problem managing temperature. What wattage setting did you set it at for mashing?

A starter is always a better way to go especially when you're unsure about viability. Hopefully it turns out well!

Bigcol49 said:

Hi!
Have you tried restricting the flow of the pump during the mash?
Looking at a video of a similar one-pot system, the grain was totally immersed in the liquid, so the position of the return pipe from the pump would have a negligible effect.
I use a recirculating mash system (not one-pot) and I use a steamer basket (Wilko's) to spread the return from the pump to disturb the grain bed as little as possible.

Click to expand...

Hmmm - There is something I am missing I think. The benefit of having a pump is so that the wort gets circulated more therefore increasing the amount of grain that gets in contact with the wort which then translate in more sugars being extracted and therefore bigger efficiency - yes? Which is why using a steamer basket makes sense, to spread the return from the pump. But why do you say "to disturb the grain bed as little as possible"? Does it not contradict the purpose of having a pump in the first place?

mgkpancake said:

That's awesome man. When I did my first brew I didn't hit my numbers because I thought my strike water was too high. Sounds like you didn't have a problem managing temperature. What wattage setting did you set it at for mashing?

A starter is always a better way to go especially when you're unsure about viability. Hopefully it turns out well!

Click to expand...

I set it to 2500W for mashing and it kept the temperature fairly constant throughout the 60 min (+/- 1 C).

The good news is that last night I checked the FV and there was certainly plenty of activity going on there :thumb: It has taken a couple of days to get going, but it means there might be something drinkable in there. Will be dry hopping soon and leave it there for another 10 days or so, for a total of 14 days in the FV. It is a couple of days more than what the recipe recommended but I don't think it will hurt.

Hope it turns out well mado you've proabably seen on the otrher Ace thread that I have some dialing in to do on my Klarstein which it seems were due to excess boil off after boiling at 2500w I turned it down to 1800 on my last brew and hit the volumes and gravity as expected at 75% efficiency so it should all work out for you as well.
Congrats on getting the first one done, time to plan the next now:)

Ideally the grain bed should remain as undisturbed as possible that way all the particulate matter gets trapped as the liquor recirculates through , if the return flow digs into the grain bed it can both disturb the particulate matter within that portion of the grain bed and also force a main channel through the grain so that the majority of the liquor passes through a subset of the grain time and time again resulting in a subsequent loss of efficiency.

Fil said:

Ideally the grain bed should remain as undisturbed as possible that way all the particulate matter gets trapped as the liquor recirculates through , if the return flow digs into the grain bed it can both disturb the particulate matter within that portion of the grain bed and also force a main channel through the grain so that the majority of the liquor passes through a subset of the grain time and time again resulting in a subsequent loss of efficiency.

Click to expand...

So, as long as the top mesh plate is on the grain basket and the recirculated flow from the pump is slowly pouring onto it, then this should work ok. Presumably the top mesh plate should not be pushed down tightly onto the grain bed but raised up slightly from the top of the grain?

This would also explain why I have seen some people put an extra piece of silicone tubing onto the end of the recirculation pipe so it lies on the top plate as this allows the wort to flow over the whole plate and then disperse through it rather than hitting the same place on the plate from a height.

[just thinking out loud here as I haven't used my Ace for a brew yet and am just thinking through things before I mess everything up!:lol:]

press the top plate down firmly but dont squeeze onto the grain bed to contain it once well mashed in and evenly wet. space will work against you providing an area for turbulence
well thats how my different make system works

madoIII said:

The benefit of having a pump is so that the wort gets circulated more therefore increasing the amount of grain that gets in contact with the wort which then translate in more sugars being extracted

Click to expand...

Hi!
I don't see it that way. The grain is totally immersed in the liquor, just as it is in an unpumped system.
The element switches on and off intermittently to maintain mash temperature. The pump circulates the wort to ensure there is an even distribution of heat.
Also, as Fil said, the other benefit of a pumped system is that the grain bed acts as a filter as it "settles"; wort flowing through the grain bed eventually clarifies as small particles get caught in the "filter".
In unpumped systems, brewers vorlauf the wort as it leaves the mash tun - first runnings of the wort are collected and gently added back into the mash tun to flow through the grain bed. This is done several times until the wort runs clear.

Ah! very good advice here guys. I should have added a disclaimer to my signature: I have done a grand total of 3 homebrews, only 1 of them on a decent kit (the ACE). I am speaking from the realm of ignorance :mrgreen:

So the pump has two purposes:
- Heat distribution
- A clearer wort

I will check on the next brew how to evenly distribute the wort coming out from the return pipe.

Bigcol49 said:

In unpumped systems, brewers vorlauf the wort as it leaves the mash tun - first runnings of the wort are collected and gently added back into the mash tun to flow through the grain bed. This is done several times until the wort runs clear.

Click to expand...

I did that as well as I thought it would increase the gravity. My first reading following the sparge was way off the target. It did increase the gravity a bit, although to be fair I recirculated the wort (post mash) back into the mash tun quite a few times.

Thanks guys, this will help a lot in the next brew! :thumb:

Last night I finally got to try this batch and I am well happy with the result: no odd flavours, good head retention and nice colour :thumb:

Some guides suggested pale ale recipes are easier when you start with AG, so I picked this Sierra Nevada Pale Ale clone and the result is not that far off (I suppose my taste buds are not very demanding :whistle:)

I have got a list of 10 or 12 things that I want to do differently on the next batch:
- Less vigorous boil
- Improvements to the pumping system (as discussed previously in this thread)
- A replacement/enhancement of the current bazooka filter
- And a few others

I know I am supposed to stick to the same recipe until I get comfortable with the process - that is actually the plan.

But let's suppose I would like this beer to be hoppier. Could I set 5L aside on a separate FV and chuck in some extra hops, for example double the amount of Citra during dry hopping?

Thanks guys!