Have a go at simple AG
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I always do 12L AG batches (in a 15L pot) topping up as the end of the boil nears isn't an issue. The good thing with this batch size is that you can lift it and strain it into the FV, so no need for extra taps and pipes, just get a standard stock pot and off you go.
Tony1951
Bungling Amateur
I don't think anybody will come to regret getting into AG. I have three cans of Coopers kits lying in a drawer and I doubt they are going to be used now.
I started with a twelve litre pot and managed to get about nine litres out at the end. You can certainly add boiled water back as the boil evaporates and get the full 10 litres of the recipe. It has no effect on the brew to do that.
I started with a twelve litre pot and managed to get about nine litres out at the end. You can certainly add boiled water back as the boil evaporates and get the full 10 litres of the recipe. It has no effect on the brew to do that.
I have - to a degree.
It's been far from plain sailing for me: maybe I've just been unlucky, but I took the jump around this time last year thanks to this thread, after 4 years of kits and Extract. I don't know why but a lot of my brews have started out great but become infected after 2-3 months in the bottles, this never happened previously with kits and Extract. I'm wondering if fruit flies are getting into the beer during the cooling process? I'm still AG brewing but supplementing it with kits and Extract. Yet again, my latest 2 AG brews in bottles are not what they were a month ago, yet an Extract brew has matured lovely.
Wish I could be a bit more positive as I've had great fun this past year experimenting with loads of different recipes and ingredients, but ultimately a lot of my beer has had to go down the drain .
And before you ask, I am obsessive about cleaning / sanitising and have a 4-stage process but am still getting problems.
Yes it is.
Went through a really bad patch end of last year into this one: everything was infected. Seem to be coming out of it now that I've instigated an over-the-top cleaning regime, still getting the odd infected bottle but not whole batches since March thankfully. My kitchen (where I brew) gets fairly clammy and the family eat a lot of fruit so suspect fruit flies, was bottling an AG batch today and caught one in the air.
Don't get me wrong, I'm a firm believer in AG, but from my experience it's not quite as simple to get spot-on as some make out.
Went through a really bad patch end of last year into this one: everything was infected. Seem to be coming out of it now that I've instigated an over-the-top cleaning regime, still getting the odd infected bottle but not whole batches since March thankfully. My kitchen (where I brew) gets fairly clammy and the family eat a lot of fruit so suspect fruit flies, was bottling an AG batch today and caught one in the air.
Don't get me wrong, I'm a firm believer in AG, but from my experience it's not quite as simple to get spot-on as some make out.
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Hoppyland
Senior Member
I'm really struggling to understand why - or indeed how - your AG can have a problem that the extract brew doesn't.
Presumably, the only difference in making the beer is in the mashing phase. But, after sparging, you effectively have malt extract. You then boil this with hops, pretty much the same as diluting a tin of extract and boiling that with hops.
OK, I know that boiling the wort will not render it clinically sterile - you'd have to pressure-cook it to do that. But, in practice, I'm pretty certain that no live organisms likely to spoil your beer will remain. Even if they did, they should be overwhelmed by your yeast starter. Fruit flies do get me paranoid, but only post-boil! :)
It seems to me that the extract brews are being exposed to exactly the same problems as the AG brews anyway in terms of post-boil, fermentation, bottling etc. Have you just been unlucky???
Maybe I have been unlucky, but 5 AG brews infected on the trot suggests something more. 80 successful kit and Extract brews before that.
The difference between my AG and Extract brews were that the AG were full-volume so needed a cooling period (and some help with the pan in the sinkfull of cold water); the Extracts were a 6L boil so went straight into the FV to be topped up with cold water to bring the temp down. Hence me wondering if fruit flies had somehow got into the AG as it was cooling.
The difference between my AG and Extract brews were that the AG were full-volume so needed a cooling period (and some help with the pan in the sinkfull of cold water); the Extracts were a 6L boil so went straight into the FV to be topped up with cold water to bring the temp down. Hence me wondering if fruit flies had somehow got into the AG as it was cooling.
JapanBrew
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What solution are you using to sanitize? Starsan? I just use Milton and keep 2 liters of it sitting on the counter with my syphon sand other tools just soaking in it all the time.
All I can think of that would be different is the chilling part. That takes time. Where are you doing it? You might have to find another room to chill. Maybe even outdoors. If I was near you, I would send you my plate chiller to see if that cures the problem.
When you say infection is it completely ruined or is it just an off Apple taste?
All I can think of that would be different is the chilling part. That takes time. Where are you doing it? You might have to find another room to chill. Maybe even outdoors. If I was near you, I would send you my plate chiller to see if that cures the problem.
When you say infection is it completely ruined or is it just an off Apple taste?
MyQul
Chairman of the Bored
Similarly to Darrellm I brew in my kitchen with an overflowing fruit bowl. I chill in my kitchen over 24-48 hours and have never had a problem. The only times I've had (wild yeast) infections was when I was faffing about with top cropping experimentation and had the FV open for long period of times.
Curiously enough I'm convined that if you have the FV open before pitching for a long period of time this isnt a problem as I'm done this loads of times without problem but if you open the FV a couple of days after fermentation gets going thats when the problem arise (and thats when I've had WY infections)
Started my 10l batch this evening and i think it all went to plan.
I was concerned about space in my 12l pot so i dropped mash water to 5l and the sparge to 6. After the boil i was left with about 7ish litres of wort which i topped up to 10ltrs.
I went with a basic smash, 2kg of marris otter and 10g of EKG at 60 mins and 15g of EKG at 5 mins.
SG came out at 1.060 which i thought was pretty good.
Enjoyed the process apart from trying to cool 10ltrs of hot wort in my small sink!!!
Cant wait to sample this.
I was concerned about space in my 12l pot so i dropped mash water to 5l and the sparge to 6. After the boil i was left with about 7ish litres of wort which i topped up to 10ltrs.
I went with a basic smash, 2kg of marris otter and 10g of EKG at 60 mins and 15g of EKG at 5 mins.
SG came out at 1.060 which i thought was pretty good.
Enjoyed the process apart from trying to cool 10ltrs of hot wort in my small sink!!!
Cant wait to sample this.
JapanBrew
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If he (or she, don't want to offend) is using the same equipment and sanitation for AG and kits, then the only difference should be wort transfer before boil. Assuming he/she boils the kit for a bit.
Darrellm, I would step back and start from the beginning and as you're going through each step, make notes on what you normally soak and sanitize and what you probably should spray down. I have 2 large Golden retrievers and they think they need to help me brew. I can't even imagine how much crap they kick up in the kitchen. But still haven't lost a batch yet. And I even harvest and grow yeast now. Not just collect and reuse.
Darrellm, I would step back and start from the beginning and as you're going through each step, make notes on what you normally soak and sanitize and what you probably should spray down. I have 2 large Golden retrievers and they think they need to help me brew. I can't even imagine how much crap they kick up in the kitchen. But still haven't lost a batch yet. And I even harvest and grow yeast now. Not just collect and reuse.
I have done, and thankfully the run of AGs since Xmas have been infection-free :) Still can't say for sure what caused it, I thought my hygiene was good before, but my latest more thorough regime seems to have fixed it for now. I did read that sanitisers such as VWP and Starsan don't kill wild yeast, so now everything gets a kettle full of boiling water just before it gets used. This has worked - the infection did spread around, once I got the FVs free I still had a keg that got infected, but I now seem to have sorted it. Just a bit puzzled why the AGs seemed more susceptible.
This :shock:
and this
The infections chewed on the non-fermentables and kept producing CO2. I got 2 pints of head out of one of the bottles that didn't explode. Taste was rank too.
Had a few batches like this, fine initially then the infection took hold after a few months. Stored ina cool garage over winter but when I brought them inside, within an hour they were exploding.
Hoppyland
Senior Member
Well, I guess this might fit the fruit-fly hypothesis. Don't think I've seen one since last autumn.
Bunglebrewsbeer
Landlord.
AG all they way since trying it last year. Not had a bad beer yet apart from one stuck fermentation. The difference in quality is massive. I've had people say they'd pay me to make beers of late.
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Had my first go at AG tonight using this method. Just finished after bang on 4 hours (its a good job the wife is out tonight!)
5 litre batch using 1kg pale malt and 100g crystal malt. I like a hoppy beer but a bit concerned i have gone a touch overboard:
5g fuggles @ 60 mins
5g fuggles @ 30 mins
5g fuggles @ 10 mins
8g cascade @ 0 mins
Gravity came out at bang on 1.050
Fingers crossed!
5 litre batch using 1kg pale malt and 100g crystal malt. I like a hoppy beer but a bit concerned i have gone a touch overboard:
5g fuggles @ 60 mins
5g fuggles @ 30 mins
5g fuggles @ 10 mins
8g cascade @ 0 mins
Gravity came out at bang on 1.050
Fingers crossed!
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