Malt grains in basket BEFORE or AFTER water ?

Barone · Sunday at 4:27 PM

In Single Vessel pans... First malt grains inside the basket, before the water... or first water in the basket and then malt grains ?
In Brewzilla gen 4 I have been looking at forums that : A couple of pro tips to wrap things up. First, is to make sure you add your grains to the malt pipe BEFORE you lower it into the vessel. This ensures the weight of the grain keeps the bottom plate in place, so that as you lower it down, the water doesn’t push the bottom plate out of position and create a sneak path for whole grains to get through

Caramel Ox · Sunday at 4:35 PM

If you need to hold the plate in position use the mash paddle as you lower it. The malt pipe can go in at the start before heating so you can both see it’s position and sort it out by hand if you need to.

The malt will not weigh down the plate as described because it is more or less buoyant in water at least at the start of the mash.

robster62 · Monday at 10:37 PM

Barone said:
In Single Vessel pans... First malt grains inside the basket, before the water... or first water in the basket and then malt grains ?
In Brewzilla gen 4 I have been looking at forums that : A couple of pro tips to wrap things up. First, is to make sure you add your grains to the malt pipe BEFORE you lower it into the vessel. This ensures the weight of the grain keeps the bottom plate in place, so that as you lower it down, the water doesn’t push the bottom plate out of position and create a sneak path for whole grains to get through

How would you get rid of the clumps of grain this way? Surely adding the grain while the malt pipe is in the water means you can stir out clumps as you add more grain.

Rwilts · Monday at 11:18 PM

robster62 said:
How would you get rid of the clumps of grain this way? Surely adding the grain while the malt pipe is in the water means you can stir out clumps as you add more grain.

You can still stir after , but it's not a method I will be partaking in .

fluketamer · Tuesday at 12:22 AM

very minimal stirring needed when putting the grain in first then lowering the tun . almost none. especially with a thin mash

MashBag · Tuesday at 7:15 AM

I have a loose bottom.
I fill with water, treat it, stir.
Insert mash tube and bottom sieve, then the grain. Stir. Sorted.

A side issue. If your top plate slides to sit on top of the grain. Stop it moving. Use silicone tube. Soooo much better.

tondy79 · Tuesday at 9:24 AM

I am a fan of putting the malt in the grain basket and lowering into the brewzilla (in my case).

I lower it in slowly, allowing the water to trickle through the grain and let it feel like water is pulling the basket away from me. This ends up being similar to underletting.

I still give the grain a good old stir, but when I do it this way I don't worry at all about dough balls, and I find it less irksome than adding grain to the water.

I put the grain basket in a bucket whilst I fill it, and then add the small floury bits that fall through to the top of the grain bed once it's in the water and a bit settled

Try it, you might like it

Rwilts · Tuesday at 10:01 AM

'Try it, you might like it

'

It starts with a little underletting but before you know it your checking ph on a 3 vessel HIRMS setup ...

tondy79 · Tuesday at 10:59 AM

Rwilts said:
'Try it, you might like it '

It starts with a little underletting but before you know it your checking ph on a 3 vessel HIRMS setup ...

haha, exactly!

Druncan · Tuesday at 12:11 PM

As @tondy79 says,, But I don't stir ashock1

as I consider all the grain is wetted by the gradual underletting. I then slowly circulate as soon as it's down and top up with treated sparge liquor once in balance. After mashout I crank the hoist gradually and sparge the remainder with a rotating sprinkler as lifting it then drain and chuck in the drainage,,,,, Is this wrong? :roll:

as it seems easy and produces lovely clear wort with little slurry. (Klarstein Brauheld 65) Grain pre-mixed in tubs and homogenised.

No nightmares of 3 vessel cleanups here clapa

Rwilts · Tuesday at 12:59 PM

Pretty sure @chopps was under letting to begin with...

chopps · Tuesday at 1:47 PM

Rwilts said:
Pretty sure @chopps was under letting to begin with...

I did, but there was 150kg of grain on my slack bottom so it wasn't going to move much.
On my 50L home kit I had a mash basket stood inside the vessel so the bottom was not an issue

Barone · Tuesday at 4:06 PM

tondy79 said:
I am a fan of putting the malt in the grain basket and lowering into the brewzilla (in my case).

I lower it in slowly, allowing the water to trickle through the grain and let it feel like water is pulling the basket away from me. This ends up being similar to underletting.

I still give the grain a good old stir, but when I do it this way I don't worry at all about dough balls, and I find it less irksome than adding grain to the water.

I put the grain basket in a bucket whilst I fill it, and then add the small floury bits that fall through to the top of the grain bed once it's in the water and a bit settled

Try it, you might like it

thanks

MashBag · Tuesday at 4:56 PM

I might have to mess about a with a bit of pipe, to cover the centre rod but I will give it a go.

Do you lose any flour/dust?

Druncan · Tuesday at 5:20 PM

Flour dust goes over the top with a dead rat clapa

Twostage · 2025-02-26T15:17:36+0000

I have the malt pipe in before the water never mind the grain.

Final stages of cleaning is malt pipe back in, recirculate some starchem hosing stuff down with end of the recirc pipe, drain.

Next session stick some water in, heater on while I weigh stuff.

malhal · 2025-02-27T07:41:48+0000

Sprinkle in after the water so the air between them helps them float. Use mash paddle to cut up dough balls gently so grains stay floating. Don’t stir vigorous cause then grains will sink and mash won’t work properly.

Why grains must float is covered in Palmer’s How to Brew.

tondy79 · 2025-02-27T08:23:09+0000

malhal said:
Sprinkle in after the water so the air between them helps them float. Use mash paddle to cut up dough balls gently so grains stay floating. Don’t stir vigorous cause then grains will sink and mash won’t work properly.

Why grains must float is covered in Palmer’s How to Brew.

I'm not convinced by the science of keeping air between the grains only by sprinkling into water. But there are a lot of ways to brew, and adding grain to water is perfectly acceptable in my book, I just don't think "air between grains" is the right argument for it when comparing to adding water to grain. If it's important, there will be air between grains when they are loose in a bag, and when they are loose in your grain basket.

Also my recollection of Palmer's book is that he says to add water to grain a gallon at a time, but admittedly I haven't got it in front of me right now.

There are lots of ways to brew. Try a few, see how it feels, and look at the outcomes you get. Experimentation is part of the fun!

The Baron · 2025-02-27T08:33:02+0000

Palmer like all "experts" is not always right.
For every "expert" who says do it this way there is a alternative from a different "expert".
Do what works for you and do not forget the "experts" are right sometimes but just want to sell books so need to find something new to write in them.
Oh by the way make sure you use a wooden paddle as the metal ones conductheat away from the mash :laugh8:

,maybe I should write that in my next book-NOT!!!

borischarlton · 2025-02-27T11:17:50+0000

I would always underlet when using a mash tun in a three vessel set up. For AIN's, I have experimented with this. Add a small proportion of grain to the basket whilst it is fully submerged, this acts as an extra filter to stop fines dripping through onto the bottom heater plate. I then pull the basket out and rest on top, add the complete grain bill and gently lower back into the vessel.
The advantage I find is much less stirring is required to dough in. This is especially useful on an AIN as sometimes problems can occur with too many fines dropping through onto the heater plate and burning. Even worse if doughing in at low temperature.

Nothing like an expert, just through experimentation I have found that it works

Malt grains in basket BEFORE or AFTER water ?

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