so we will have field after field full of solar coast lines full of big white towers with spinning things and now gantrys in the streets, great
Electric cars.
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I assume similar sentiments were expressed when electrification started. And previously for gas lighting.
Nope. And it still makes no sense. I'm guessing because it seems to have no basis in accounting.
Edit: It might help if you said what assumptions you are making.
Capacity, Production, Storage, Marginal cost etc.
I did. You quoted my reply. Did you not understand what "the same" means?
Found a couple of T shirts for Larse and Rod i will let you decide which two are for each 
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I read a interesting article by Volvo in the week ,which stated that you had to do 145,000 miles in your EV ,before it started being more planet friendly than a petrol/diesel .
I also find it interesting that when charging your EV overnight you could quite easily be using electricity generated by Drax ,which is burning Canadian and North American forests even though it is so called a green energy ,so EV are far from being the saviours of the planet .
I also find it interesting that when charging your EV overnight you could quite easily be using electricity generated by Drax ,which is burning Canadian and North American forests even though it is so called a green energy ,so EV are far from being the saviours of the planet .
This is an EV myth. Although your one is more egregious since the original myth said 50,000 miles.
The same could be said about any usage of electricity. Assuming you live in the US or Canada.
Yes, EVs are only part of the solution.
The point is that an EV gives us a way to move to using entirely green energy. ICE never will.
No i don't think so, they allowed people to see in the dark, you just seem to be picking holes in everything anybody says, like my way or no way, not every one has 1 tract thinking or are sucked in by the so called experts
Your post was picking holes in mine. Is this a forum where only one view is allowed? And only from certain people?
And people protest about electricity pylons being put up. Even now.
Not at all, every post you post is a put down, so much so i will not answer any more of your posts
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To answer a couple of points here -
This is an EV myth. Although your one is more egregious since the original myth said 50,000 miles. - this is still very subjective and links to the size of the EV type of battery and so on, but with my EV sitting at 43k and not going back to over 100k i am not worried about that tbh,
I also find it interesting that when charging your EV overnight you could quite easily be using electricity generated by Drax ,which is burning Canadian and North American forests even though it is so called a green energy ,so EV are far from being the saviours of the planet . - Again very subjective all i can offer on this is the written guarantee the Octopus Energy have given me with my EV Intelligent Go package for off peak EV charging that states the energy is 100% renewable, I have to take this on face value. The other point is i certainly do not claim to be the saviour of the planet FAR FAR from it i work in defence that actively destroys it and have an old motorbike that burns oil and fuel at an alarming rate haha. Taking on a EV for me was financial choice the green aspect was not the reason. One area to look into tho brake dust, this is recognised as huge environmental issue and had forced Mercedes for example to look at in internal braking system in the gearbox as it will not meet the future regulations. An EV has practically no wear to the friction brakes and o not need replacing, cars with 150k are still on original pads, sometimes discs needs changed as they corrode as not used. EVs do need Oil changes again think how many billion litres of oil are used for ICE. EVs are rightly criticised for precious elements in the batteries and I fully agree, bit people seem to forget the breathtaking amount of catalytic converters and DPFs that are non serviceable and get replaced on an ICE
so we will have field after field full of solar coast lines full of big white towers with spinning things and now gantrys in the streets, great - again very subjective in my part of the world West Coast of Scotland) we do have many wind turbines, they are mostly tucked away up on hills or land not suited for other uses etc. now a growing number of offshore installations. Do i find them an eyesore not really have become used to them and think sod it we gets silly weather why not use it. The overhead gantries I think that is bit far fetched, the proposal was 2 retractable leads in each lamp post not adding any more hardware but using what was there. In Scotland Dennis who make buses have demonstrated wireless charging set in to tarmac roads you drive over park up and it charges, idea like this need to be explored
Batteries end up in landfill - sorry simply not true EV batteries are in HUGE demand and when an EV is scrapped insurance companies know the value of the batteries, they can be broken down into cells to be refurbished there seems to be this idea that EV batteries die and get thrown away they are multi cell units and can be reconditioned, this is very much a growth market. I would love an old EV battery to put in my garage run my house off it during the day charge on reduced rates at night, bu the cost of batteries from breakers is eye watering so sorry cant see them going to landfill.
Lets take a sensible look at this even if ICE is banned from 2035 that still means another 20+ years of ICE they don't just stop because they are no longer sold new, cars go much longer these days and sheer number of ICE world wide is going to dwarf EVs for decades to come the rate of sales to replace ICE is not achievable, likewise the raw materials.
EVs are short to mid term solution and not suitable for everyone until the cost of buying one comes down and the cost of public charging tumbles, the public charging infrastructure and costs seem to be a UK issue and an utter disgrace that past and present government either are oblivious to or just do not care. Why the government refuse to lift the 20% tax on pubic chargers is beyond. In fact go further why do we insist on linking electricity prices to wholesale gas prices, we seem to be one of the few countries who still do this, how can we shift to electric everything when the keep rigging the prices?
If you do not have capability for home charging i would argue like dealers rightly advised Diesel customers after the DPF scandals that if only doing short journeys then a modern Diesel is not the correct choice and advise against it. When I took on my EV via Arnold Clark the sales person was very clear and asked if i had a home charger or could i get one if not he would advise this vehicle as it would not be the best option at this time. The Government needs to understand that forcing the issue will not work and until they somehow fix public charging and EV pricing this is never going to be a genuine option for large number and can not just cut them loose
This is an EV myth. Although your one is more egregious since the original myth said 50,000 miles. - this is still very subjective and links to the size of the EV type of battery and so on, but with my EV sitting at 43k and not going back to over 100k i am not worried about that tbh,
I also find it interesting that when charging your EV overnight you could quite easily be using electricity generated by Drax ,which is burning Canadian and North American forests even though it is so called a green energy ,so EV are far from being the saviours of the planet . - Again very subjective all i can offer on this is the written guarantee the Octopus Energy have given me with my EV Intelligent Go package for off peak EV charging that states the energy is 100% renewable, I have to take this on face value. The other point is i certainly do not claim to be the saviour of the planet FAR FAR from it i work in defence that actively destroys it and have an old motorbike that burns oil and fuel at an alarming rate haha. Taking on a EV for me was financial choice the green aspect was not the reason. One area to look into tho brake dust, this is recognised as huge environmental issue and had forced Mercedes for example to look at in internal braking system in the gearbox as it will not meet the future regulations. An EV has practically no wear to the friction brakes and o not need replacing, cars with 150k are still on original pads, sometimes discs needs changed as they corrode as not used. EVs do need Oil changes again think how many billion litres of oil are used for ICE. EVs are rightly criticised for precious elements in the batteries and I fully agree, bit people seem to forget the breathtaking amount of catalytic converters and DPFs that are non serviceable and get replaced on an ICE
so we will have field after field full of solar coast lines full of big white towers with spinning things and now gantrys in the streets, great - again very subjective in my part of the world West Coast of Scotland) we do have many wind turbines, they are mostly tucked away up on hills or land not suited for other uses etc. now a growing number of offshore installations. Do i find them an eyesore not really have become used to them and think sod it we gets silly weather why not use it. The overhead gantries I think that is bit far fetched, the proposal was 2 retractable leads in each lamp post not adding any more hardware but using what was there. In Scotland Dennis who make buses have demonstrated wireless charging set in to tarmac roads you drive over park up and it charges, idea like this need to be explored
Batteries end up in landfill - sorry simply not true EV batteries are in HUGE demand and when an EV is scrapped insurance companies know the value of the batteries, they can be broken down into cells to be refurbished there seems to be this idea that EV batteries die and get thrown away they are multi cell units and can be reconditioned, this is very much a growth market. I would love an old EV battery to put in my garage run my house off it during the day charge on reduced rates at night, bu the cost of batteries from breakers is eye watering so sorry cant see them going to landfill.
Lets take a sensible look at this even if ICE is banned from 2035 that still means another 20+ years of ICE they don't just stop because they are no longer sold new, cars go much longer these days and sheer number of ICE world wide is going to dwarf EVs for decades to come the rate of sales to replace ICE is not achievable, likewise the raw materials.
EVs are short to mid term solution and not suitable for everyone until the cost of buying one comes down and the cost of public charging tumbles, the public charging infrastructure and costs seem to be a UK issue and an utter disgrace that past and present government either are oblivious to or just do not care. Why the government refuse to lift the 20% tax on pubic chargers is beyond. In fact go further why do we insist on linking electricity prices to wholesale gas prices, we seem to be one of the few countries who still do this, how can we shift to electric everything when the keep rigging the prices?
If you do not have capability for home charging i would argue like dealers rightly advised Diesel customers after the DPF scandals that if only doing short journeys then a modern Diesel is not the correct choice and advise against it. When I took on my EV via Arnold Clark the sales person was very clear and asked if i had a home charger or could i get one if not he would advise this vehicle as it would not be the best option at this time. The Government needs to understand that forcing the issue will not work and until they somehow fix public charging and EV pricing this is never going to be a genuine option for large number and can not just cut them loose
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Would you care to share the link? Because as mentioned above, that's pure misinformation. There's been various attempts by ICE car makers to create FUD on the payback issue - the most laughable was an "independent" report from a company that turned out to be the wife of the Aston Martin marketing director.
I think you're thinking of a Volvo study that has repeatedly been quoted by the Daily Mail despite being debunked, saying that the payback time for a 2021 Volvo C40 EV relative to a petrol XC40 was 30-68k miles. Even so, the original Volvo report said “The carbon footprint [of an electric C40 Recharge] shows a great reduction in greenhouse gas emissions compared to that of an internal combustion engine (ICE) vehicle.”
Independent analysis puts it at about 16,000 miles, even with a 2021 electricity mix.
There's another similar study that claims the now-discontinued e-Golf breaks even after 77,000 miles when it's more like 14,000 miles.
See https://www.carbonbrief.org/factcheck-21-misleading-myths-about-electric-vehicles/ for more on this - and avoid any reporting on EVs from the Daily Mail or Telegraph, they just ignore facts in favour of propaganda.
That's not a EV-specific thing, that would be true whether you were using Drax to make hydrogen or boil you tea. Not many people will defend Drax, other than the grid people who love having a flexible asset at the geographical heart of the network. But a) Drax is a small part of the UK electricity mix - its maximum capacity is <4% of UK total capacity, and it usually runs at only 25-50% of that maximum capacity and b) the current contract only has another 3 years to run and it's unlikely to be renewed in its current form.
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Meanwhile the latest SMMT figures for UK sales in November are out - BEVs up 58% yoy to 25.1% of the market, hybrids down a touch in line with the market but still accounting for another 23%, petrol down 18% to below 46%.
Think that's the first month that pure BEVs have outsold hybrids, could be wrong.
https://www.smmt.co.uk/vehicle-data/car-registrations/
Think that's the first month that pure BEVs have outsold hybrids, could be wrong.
https://www.smmt.co.uk/vehicle-data/car-registrations/
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Some interesting and thought provoking replies ,cheers all ,its a minefield out there :)
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Links? The technology has moved on quite a bit, you're now seeing efficiencies of anything up to 5.0 in the real world, but it is critically dependent on them being installed by someone who know what they're doing. To give an example, this video is the last in a series where a team of experts come in to fix a botched installation in a "difficult" house, and in this one they talk to the owner about his experience. The first section after the introduction is "Happy Wife" - say no more!
In which case, how come Scandinavia has the highest rate of heat pump installs? Is Scotland somehow colder than Finland? Or is Haughey admitting that his lads don't know what they're doing?
The Haughey comments seem to have been to the Telegraph, which is even more dogged in its hatred of heat pumps than of electric cars - they don't want to talk about Brexit or Brussels any more so they need a new hate figure to gain the clicks.
But just taking two of the things he says, they're both half-truths that are pure FUD :
only heated water to 54C (129.2F) – less than the 60C recommended by the Health and Safety Executive to kill the legionella bacteria.
First - the legionella bacterium is actually pretty common, particularly on things like shower heads - and yet catching legionella at home is incredibly rare. It relies on stagnant water to grow and accumulate, and most home users have a good throughput of water. And although it will only last 2 minutes at 60C, it will die after 2 hours at 50C, so it's not like it's going to be dancing round all happy just waiting to kill you if your water is at 54C. And most modern heat pumps have a 60C anti-legionella cycle that operates once a week anyway.
some units can stop working properly at temperatures of -5C (23F), or require more electricity to function properly, resulting in higher bills.
The government sponsored an Electrification of Heat demonstration project back in 2020 where they put 742 heat pumps into a variety of homes. They only saw an average efficiency of 2.80 (the guys in the Youtube video above claim to average 4.44 in their installations as of 2024) but that only dropped to 2.44 on the coldest days of the year when it was hitting -6C so the cold-weather hit is not that great. Other notable things they found was that although high temperature heat pumps are less efficient when operating at high temperatures, they do so infrequently in the real world so the real-world efficiency isn't that much worse than regular ones. And they found 15% needed extra insulation, but in most cases that just meant extra loft insulation.
This is a good debunking of a lot of the myths around heat pumps here : https://www.carbonbrief.org/factcheck-18-misleading-myths-about-heat-pumps/
It was a bit of a thing 10-15 years ago (look up Hythane) because it doesn't need any adjustments to cooker burners etc but what they found was that it was a bit of a waste of time. Hydrogen has a much lower energy density than methane, and it tends to escape, so it just doesn't contribute that much actual heat when you burn it in the final application.
Having emailed 3 companies in my area they now all confirm in Scotland the recommendation is an ASHP backed by a hydrogen ready gas boiler to boost the temperature. I can only go by the advice and recommendations of the companies fitting the systems, I have limited knowledge but my brother who designs AC and Heat Pumps has that exact set up in his house.
I will look into the Scandinavian model as we are clearly being wrongly advised in the UK
