Renationalise water.

trummy · Aug 23, 2022

Today news outlets are reporting that water companies have failed to monitor the amount of sewage being discharged into the sea in popular resort towns.
Petition starter Ed believes that the “water industry is no longer fit for purpose.” He has started a petition calling on the Government to renationalise water.
Will you add your name today to protect beaches across the UK?

Renationalise the Water Industry

103,857 have signed Ed Acteson’s petition. Let’s get to 150,000!

Bjorn Toulouse · Nov 26, 2024

People can. In Scotland we had an unofficial referendum back in the 90s carried out by the regional councils where 95% of the people were against it. OK it spelled the end of the regional councils but at least water is still in public ownership.

Laner · Nov 26, 2024

They haven’t failed to monitor, they know exactly how much they are discharging on the monitored outfalls, and they know how many unmonitored outfalls they have.

The issue is that the companies get to mark their own homework and if/when and what to report. Pollution incidents are scored on a 5 - 1 scorecard by the inhouse waste water teams, with 1 being the most serious. How many 1’s do you think they report???

Clint · Nov 26, 2024

None! It's all number 2s!

Larse · Nov 26, 2024

The only problem is renationalising is expensive. And with so many crocodiles around the ship of state, I suspect this one is not close enough to the boat.

Appleton Brews · Nov 27, 2024

Has to be renationalised but as Larse say it will cost a fortune even if there’s no compensation. There has been a lack of investment in the infrastructure since privatisation and addressing this will cost billions. But no difference from the lack of investment in the NHS and Schools.

An Ankoù · Nov 27, 2024

Appleton Brews said:
Has to be renationalised but as Larse say it will cost a fortune even if there’s no compensation. There has been a lack of investment in the infrastructure since privatisation and addressing this will cost billions. But no difference from the lack of investment in the NHS and Schools.

I might be looking at thus too simplisticly, but it seems to me there's a massive difference. Education and health have no immediate financial payback, but water has as every household pays for being connected to the supply and the sewer. At the moment, this revenue is being paid to fat cat shareholders and overseas owners instead of being plowed back into the infrastructure. If water were privatised, all operating profits could go back into the system. It might not be enough to fully do the job, but surely it would go a long way.

And update the sewers while we're at it. Make a million ninja turtles homeless.

Larse · Nov 27, 2024

I looked at the accounts of Anglian Water; one of 12 water companies in the UK. Has a valuation of £10 billion and made a net loss of £70 million on £1.6 billion in revenue. £963 million in capital investment. Carrying £7.5 billion in debt.

Can't see how buying that could ever result in an immediate return to the taxpayer.

Clint · Nov 27, 2024

In debt to who?

Rodcx500z · Nov 27, 2024

The shareholders and fat cat bosses :laugh8:

Larse · Nov 27, 2024

Clint said:
In debt to who?

Borrowings and bonds. There are two pages in the accounts listing all these. Borrowings figure I gave above is net.

Here's the link, knock yourself out.

Laner · Nov 27, 2024

The lack of investment in the water and sewer networks dates back well before the privatisation, Maggie knew what was coming down the line and made the decision to offload the problem whilst making a few quid..

Since privatisation the businesses have run on a ‘fix on fail’ mantra so they can squeeze the maximum £ from the guaranteed income each year. That wont change until the regulator scraps the current 5 year price review process, 5 years is just short term thinking and puts off investors from the long term investement required.

If we nationalise it, will we want to pay the MASSIVE bill?

Dont shoot me…. I work for one them and carry the shame each and every day

Clint · Nov 27, 2024

The only shame you should carry is if you run out of home brew..
This year my burden has been heavy. There is light at the start of Christmas as I have one in the fv,one mashing in now and have just ordered some oxebar kegs, reg etc.

An Ankoù · Nov 27, 2024

Larse said:
I looked at the accounts of Anglian Water; one of 12 water companies in the UK. Has a valuation of £10 billion and made a net loss of £70 million on £1.6 billion in revenue. £963 million in capital investment. Carrying £7.5 billion in debt.

Can't see how buying that could ever result in an immediate return to the taxpayer.

I don't pretend to understand the minutiae of company accounts and I wouldn't be at all surprised to learn I've got it wrong, but the story on p.4 of this report seems very positive. There seems to have been an increase in profit and cash flow.
I have got it wrong re payments to investors, which p.58 puts at only 4%, a not unreasonable amount, it seems to me.
Or am I looking at the wrong company.

https://www.awg.com/siteassets/reports/annual-integrated-report-2024.pdf

An Ankoù · Nov 27, 2024

Nope deffo don't get it. @Larse report, shows the Operating Profit, for example, to be down by £5millions while the link I've provided shows it to be up by £7 million. So I'll shut up as I'm missing something here.
Except to wonder about the £7.5 million debt. Who is it owed to? It's never going to be paid off, is it, on current income. If it's owed to the Government it won't make any difference as that money is already irretrievable. Who is it owed to?

MashBag · Nov 27, 2024

An Ankoù said:
And update the sewers while we're at it. Make a million ninja turtles homeless.

Did you mean "Make a million ninja turdles homeless"

Clint · Nov 27, 2024

Turdles...that's what I'm jumping in work.

An Ankoù · Nov 27, 2024

MashBag said:
Did you mean "Make a million ninja turdles homeless"

I try not to speak with a dodgy American accent. Unlike most Americans!

Having said that, said heros in a half-shell did swim over from the New York sewers before they got wind of Fart's deportation plans. Can't really understand why Donatello, Raphael and co wouldn't have scarpered back to Italy!

Larse · Nov 27, 2024

An Ankoù said:
Nope deffo don't get it. @Larse report, shows the Operating Profit, for example, to be down by £5millions while the link I've provided shows it to be up by £7 million. So I'll shut up as I'm missing something here.

Both say operating profit is £431 million. Bit confused as to where you're getting your figures...

But operating profit is kinda meaningless. The only positive in those accounts is that the net loss is dropping. Still a loss though.

Appleton Brews · Nov 27, 2024

You don’t have to pay tax on losses, creative accounting? I wonder if Clarkson is a major shareholder?

Renationalise water.

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