Another brewzilla question.

I go by the strike temp calculator on brewfather and I always find it's more accurate if I have the malt pipe in for the heating up so you're heating the pipe too, as putting in the cold malt pipe and then grain always makes the settled temp once you've stirred in lower than the required mash temp.

The Baron said:

Well Foxy I have just doughed in at 32c so we will see if it has any effect on the beer.
It is a style I brew on a regular basis so I should find out if its thinner has better eff etc.
Two things I can say up to know is after a few stirs I was able to keep the pump on FULL all the way through the temp raise and mash.
It did take longer to get to my mashing temp than I expected though, just waiting for my sample to cool down so we will see where the eff is

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Sorry cobber I have been doing that a lot lately, I have no idea why I have been thinking in the 30C range.

6Trails said:

I go by the strike temp calculator on brewfather and I always find it's more accurate if I have the malt pipe in for the heating up so you're heating the pipe too, as putting in the cold malt pipe and then grain always makes the settled temp once you've stirred in lower than the required mash temp.

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The point that is being made by Kai Troester and Ashton Lewis is beta amylase is less thermostable than alpha-amylase, only 40% are active during the mash. So doughing in at a lower temperature than the target temperature preserves the beta-amylase enzymes.
I am not in any way an expert on enzymes but I will take advice from those who are.
For the stirrers of the mash, they will all notice the change in the viscosity, which doesn't take long, especially with a pH between 5.3 and 5.4.

foxy said:

Sorry cobber I have been doing that a lot lately, I have no idea why I have been thinking in the 30C range.

The point that is being made by Kai Troester and Ashton Lewis is beta amylase is less thermostable than alpha-amylase, only 40% are active during the mash. So doughing in at a lower temperature than the target temperature preserves the beta-amylase enzymes.
I am not in any way an expert on enzymes but I will take advice from those who are.
For the stirrers of the mash, they will all notice the change in the viscosity, which doesn't take long, especially with a pH between 5.3 and 5.4.

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I wouldn't be myself, and that sounds like something I must try. I was never really sure why the Brewzilla recommended a strike temp when Grainfather didn't and they're essentially the same system.

6Trails said:

I wouldn't be myself, and that sounds like something I must try. I was never really sure why the Brewzilla recommended a strike temp when Grainfather didn't and they're essentially the same system.

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I often do a Hochkurz mash for certain beers, simply to preserve the beta-amylase. Doughing in lower doesn't harm the mash, just makes it more productive

Sorry cobber I have been doing that a lot lately, I have no idea why I have been thinking in the 30C range.

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Don't worry Foxy it has not altered anything re Eff yet. The true effect will only be a thinner beer at the worst(I think it will not) but I think it will be ok it may just ferment slightly lower.
Now the good point after a bit of stirring I was able to mash with my Brewzilla Gen 4 with FULL flow something I have not been able to do without throttling back.

Twostage said:

There’s also underletting (I think) where you keep the malt pipe out and put all the malt in it and then put the pipe and malt in as one. Not sure what the advantage of this technique would be .

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I saw a clip on you tube where the brewer did that but surely that must make it difficult to stir and get rid of dough balls.

Sozzled Sab said:

I saw a clip on you tube where the brewer did that but surely that must make it difficult to stir and get rid of dough balls.

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Don't know, haven't done it. That's what you'd think though. I think I saw them doing it on an MM video but I could be wrong.

The only way I have seen underletting is where the grain is already in the kettle and water is slowly introduced whereas adding a grainbasket of grain to a large amount of water would probably create doughballs I would think.

On doughballs, I saw this at a charity shop so grabbed it. No idea if it will be any use, but I'm pretty pleased with my giant whisk...

Seen a few using them doesn't Martin Keane from the Brulosophy show use one?

sifty said:

On doughballs, I saw this at a charity shop so grabbed it. No idea if it will be any use, but I'm pretty pleased with my giant whisk... View attachment 106163

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I want one for Christmas

The Baron said:

Seen a few using them doesn't Martin Keane from the Brulosophy show use one?

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Yes I saw him on the Home brew challenge videos using one, always wondered how it would go. Will find out next brew...

Big banana also uses one.

Sozzled Sab said:

Hi everyone
I am looking for advice on doughing in on my brewzilla 3.1.1. My normal process is to heat the water to strike temperature with the malt pipe in place then turn off the 1900w element,lower the temperature to 66c and add the grain.so my questions are.
Should I leave the malt pipe out until strike temperature is reached?
Should I begin recirculation as soon as I
start adding the grain. After my research on various threads and you tube I cannot seem to find a definitive answer.
Any advice would be appreciated.

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The strike temperature, given by brewfather. Is calculated, so that adding the grain mass at (given) room temperature, should cool the mix to (an average of) the first mash temperature. The grains added earlier (at the bottom) will probably be hotter, ant the later grains (at the top) will be cooler.

As others have noted, also adding a cold malt pipe, at dough in, would result in too low a temperature (initially).
Recirculate while heating to strike temp, and continue for at least 5min after hitting strike temp, to ensure the temperature is uniform.

Yes, after dough in switching off the 1900W element, leaving just the 500W, will help prevent high temperature overshoots.

I now, premix the dry gains (and oat husks), and do a gradual dough in, with minimal stirring (just enough to break up any dough balls). Then leave a 15-20 min grain bed rest, while the grain & flour hydrates (and expands), before starting circulation through the grain.
Then gradually increasing circulation, to rate just below that, where level in malt pipe rises more than 1.5cm.
Any greater level rise, and the extra fluid weight supported, can lead to a compacted grain bed.

In the BZ 3.1.1, and BZ G4, any step mash temperature increases, can take ages. Especially where much wheat, or other floury or sticky grains, are included. As the best recirculation rate, can then be quite limited.

So DON'T dough in at 32°C. (One wheat beer in BZ G4, after initial 45° protein rest, took an hour to reach 65° ! )
62°C sounds a more plausible figure for preserving beta-amylase enzymes. I aim for a 64°C mix.

Rodcx500z said:

I never leave the malt pipe out, i did it once what a mess

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I did once, by accident, but it worked really well. Actually better recirculation than normal, due to the wider diameter.
Then was able to do a floating sparge, pumping out to bucket at same rate as sparge water was added.

Just a slight delay, while boiler was emptied and rinsed. But if I had a 2x BZ, or a separate boiler, I'd do many of my beers this way.

What Peterpiper says is my results too.
I doughed in at 32c and it took ages to get to my normal mash temp but as I said earlier the one benefit is I could keep my re-circ pump on FULL all the way through my mash and mash out.
I have also accidentally left out the maltpipe and as Rod says what a mess to deal with but also as PP has said the mash and re-circ are deffo better just proves to me the brewzilla gen4 is a few cm short on diameter.
I also go 3degrees above my mash temp to strike then lower my temp down to 45% with my temp diff to 1 and my hysterical to .1 too then wait ten minutes before re-circing.