Experiment beer ending up too sweet

David Woods · Wednesday at 2:34 PM

Made an experimental beer with the following fermentables:

5kg Pilsner malt
325g Carapils
325g Flaked Rice

Nuggets hops 10g
Galaxy dry hop - 40g 4 days in.

SG 1052
FG 1012

The beer has ended very sweet! The FG sat at the same reading for 4 days before being kegging. It's only a week in but wondered if the sweetness will lessen over time and what I did wrong to end up with this. Want to avoid this in future. As I say an experiment but it was similar to a lagerish recipe I found.

It tastes very nice though!

Any help and advice would be great.

RichardM · Wednesday at 2:43 PM

What temperature did you mash at? What yeast did you use? What temperature did you ferment at?
Even if I knew the answers I wouldn't know what to suggest but someone might.
With it finishing at 1012 I wouldn't expect it to be especially sweet

chthon · Wednesday at 2:56 PM

What's the projected bitterness (IBU)?

Larse · Wednesday at 3:03 PM

10g Nugget seems very low in bitterness against all that malt and adjunct. Less than 20 IBUs.

Also as above, 1012 wouldn't seem especially sweet.

David Woods · Wednesday at 3:20 PM

Ok ,
Mash Temp 67c (all in one - kept within a deg)
Forgot the other hops which were Saaz 20g at 10mins 15 g at 2mins -sorry
Yeast Saflager 34/70 - 2 x 11g packs
Fermented at 14c
Brewfather projected the IBUs at 25 - does a low IBU mean more sweetness ?
It fermented very vigorously for 3/4 days then after day 5 it slowed and stopped

Thanks all

David Woods · Wednesday at 3:25 PM

EDIT - kick me someone - I got the hop additions incorrect!

40g Saaz 60 mins
50g " 10 mins
60g " 2 Mins
30g Cascade dry hop

Brewfather estimated 25 IBUs

I did say it was an experiment!

Larse · Wednesday at 3:29 PM

David Woods said:
EDIT - kick me someone - I got the hop additions incorrect!

40g Saaz 60 mins
50g " 10 mins
60g " 2 Mins
30g Cascade dry hop

Brewfather estimated 25 IBUs

I did say it was an experiment!

25 would be ok for a lager. Maybe on the low side, but that'd be more of an individual preference.
Beer is about balance and hops help balance against sweetness and maltiness.
But as said, 1012 wouldn't seem excessively sweet. Lots of Pilsners finish higher. Are you sure that reading is correct. Not calling into question your memory or anything, but... :confused.:

David Woods · Wednesday at 3:41 PM

It finished at 1012 according to Tilt and verified with a hydrometer - almost the same Tilt varied between 1012 and 1013. I know it's not that accurate.

It's still early in the keg so wondered if time would lessen it.

Yes the aim was for a hoppy ish lager.

Larse · Wednesday at 3:54 PM

With nearly 6Kg of fermentables, I'd have expected a higher OG. Unless your volumes are higher than the usual 23L?

For comparison, I make a Carlsberg clone that comes out around 1044 with 3.7Kg of fermentables and a Pilsner at 1050 with 3.8Kg.

Brew_DD2 · Wednesday at 6:37 PM

I'd consider making a hop tea to add some bitterness. Should balance it out for you.

Hazelwood Brewery · Wednesday at 7:33 PM

As has been noted a lower level of bitterness can give the perception of sweetness so you could try a little extra bitterness if you repeat the brew.

Yes, the sweetness can fade and your beer taste more crisp over 2-6 weeks as the beer conditions, your beer is very young at the moment. My bitter can taste sweeter and more caramel in the first couple of weeks.

You can also replace some of the grain with sugar which will make your wort more fermentable and give you a drier finish BUT this will also thin the beer so you will lose body and if you go too far the beer will seem watery. Again, it’s a question of balance - I add some dextrose at the end of the boil to dry lagers a little, usually ending up with an FG of 1.010

So maybe see how the beer turns out as it conditions, add some bitterness next time if you’re still unhappy, and consider drying the beer with some sugar if the extra bitterness doesn’t get you where you want to be?

Edit: I should also note my lager (Czech premium lager) has a bitterness of 44IBUs.

MashBag · Wednesday at 8:38 PM

I don't think it's done yet. Give it time and another taste.

Rwilts · Wednesday at 9:36 PM

Larse said:
With nearly 6Kg of fermentables, I'd have expected a higher OG. Unless your volumes are higher than the usual 23L?

For comparison, I make a Carlsberg clone that comes out around 1044 with 3.7Kg of fermentables and a Pilsner at 1050 with 3.8Kg.

How are you getting 1050 with 3.8kg? Asking for a friend

Larse · Wednesday at 9:38 PM

Rwilts said:
How are you getting 1050 with 3.8kg? Asking for a friend

Sorry, it was actually 3.85Kgs.

Sadfield · Wednesday at 10:48 PM

David Woods said:
It fermented very vigorously for 3/4 days then after day 5 it slowed and stopped

More than half of the bitterness can be lost during fermentation due to excessive krausen. As it can with foam in serving and in the glass, if you taste the foam only, it will be more bitter than the beer.

There's an interesting paper linked below, where bitterness was measured throughout the process. And they mentioned this.

"I should also add that we have measured large losses in IBU from excessive blow-off during high krausen, which can be controlled by antifoam. "

https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&sou...UQFnoECBIQAQ&usg=AOvVaw2IRsZDXKG8NmNyJcXrM64R

Wynne · Thursday at 9:55 AM

I brewed something similar recently with a projected IBU of 35 in Brewfather. I mashed at 63C for 30mins and 70 for 30 mins. FG was 1.011 and it was nicely balanced (to my taste). Maybe try a lower mash temperature next time and check your projected IBU? Plese let us know how you get on with thus batch and with the next.

An Ankoù · Thursday at 10:10 AM

Larse said:
With nearly 6Kg of fermentables, I'd have expected a higher OG. Unless your volumes are higher than the usual 23L?

For comparison, I make a Carlsberg clone that comes out around 1044 with 3.7Kg of fermentables and a Pilsner at 1050 with 3.8Kg.

If those are for 23L batches you're getting jolly good extraction. I can only approach that with Minch Lager Malt. What make are you using, @Larse ?

Larse · Thursday at 10:21 AM

An Ankoù said:
If those are for 23L batches you're getting jolly good extraction. I can only approach that with Minch Lager Malt. What make are you using, @Larse ?

Had to check my order history to be sure, but yes it was Minch Pilsner/Lager malt.

It was a 23L batch and the recipe was Dave Line's Pilsner Urquell which was supposed to be a 20L batch, so I was a bit more efficient than Dave

. Also finished a bit lower at 1012 instead of 1015. Used 34/70 yeast, one sachet without a starter.

Not a great recipe tbh, depth of flavour was lacking, the Carlsberg clone was much nicer. Will try a different recipe the next time. Which will likely be my next brew.

Edit: Here are the ingredients. It's a stepped mash for 90 minutes and a 90 minute boil. Can't remember if I liquored back, but I suspect I must have as that boil time would have reduced the wort a fair bit.

DocAnna · Thursday at 10:59 AM

I can't see mention of the yeast used? Your residual sweetness may have a lot to do with whether it's able to ferment maltotriose, it's maximum attenuation and alcohol tolerance. You can alway take a litre off and add a new yeast, give it 24 hours warm and add back to the whole to restart fermentation. Unless you use F2 yeast it's generally not effective to add dry yeast to secondary directly as it will struggle with the alcohol content to get established, but may then ferment slow with off flavours. F2 is a bit different but will dry up everything except maltotriose, and since it's a 'killer' yeast for other varieties, it can be a good yeast to clean up a stuck fermentation.

An Ankoù · Thursday at 11:05 AM

Larse said:
Had to check my order history to be sure, but yes it was Minch Pilsner/Lager malt.

Yep. It;s amazing malt.
As a rule of thumb, I work on 4Kg malt to get 1050 in a 20L batch. Minch lager gives me 10+ better than that, while continental pilsner malts tend to give me 10% less. So that makes a difference of at least 10%. No wonder it;s my goto malt for many beers.

Just received a sack of Malterie Soufflet pilsner for a particular project (Blonde d'Esquelbecq) so it'll be interesting to see what I get from that.

Experiment beer ending up too sweet

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