RoomWithABrew
Landlord.
If it's working fine in an open system is the demand valve in that system when dropped in a bucket?
Beer engine issues
- Thread starter ivanb
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@ivanb
Are you 100% certain there is pressure inside the keg?
How much water have you pumped through the engine. If it works in an open system with water I would pump through a good ten pints myself.
Must admit I'm stumped on this.
Are you 100% certain there is pressure inside the keg?
How much water have you pumped through the engine. If it works in an open system with water I would pump through a good ten pints myself.
Must admit I'm stumped on this.
Have you tried removing the sparkler and trying?
Is the sparkler blocked?
Are you sparkler free when you could pump water but for beer did you put the sparkler back on. Is that sparkler the blanking sparkler and not a pouring sparkler?
Is the sparkler blocked?
Are you sparkler free when you could pump water but for beer did you put the sparkler back on. Is that sparkler the blanking sparkler and not a pouring sparkler?
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RoomWithABrew
Landlord.
@RoomWithABrew
I don't disagree with you to be honest.
I now think the blanking sparkler is fitted when the Pinta365 dosen't work.
I don't disagree with you to be honest.
I now think the blanking sparkler is fitted when the Pinta365 dosen't work.
RoomWithABrew
Landlord.
I think if the blanking sparkler was fitted this wouldn't be happening
Perhaps a trial using a keg with water in that is open is worth trying.
Just seems that the pressure in the keg is lower than the back pressure from a column of water.
As stated before the pressure in the keg should be forcing the beer out of the engine spout if there wasn't a demand valve there.
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But can you guarantee @ivanb didn't remove the sparkler when doing the moving of the pipes over to the new container with water. I suspect some even many would. Pour a pint it works. Swap the pipes back and replace the sparkler then enjoy the pint poured without the sparkler. Put the sparkler back on so you don't lose it whilst sipping that beer and twenty minutes later it wont work again.
You can't rule out human nature from some problems.
And I would put money on the unit arrived with the blanking sparkler fitted as the default, just to protect it in transit.
It seems weird that it had this problem both with water and beer but all of a sudden on another test with water it works.
It's only a few seconds check anyway.
Until @ivanb comes back we won't know.
You can't rule out human nature from some problems.
And I would put money on the unit arrived with the blanking sparkler fitted as the default, just to protect it in transit.
It seems weird that it had this problem both with water and beer but all of a sudden on another test with water it works.
It's only a few seconds check anyway.
Until @ivanb comes back we won't know.
Thank you so much guys for all the help and support :-) Sparkler was not a problem, all the tests i did before was without a sparkler.
I finally managed to pour myself a pint. So happy, it was fresh and delicious bitter, small carbonation, just one sip and i felt like i am on a trip in UK in one of the cask ale pubs :-)
It seems that part of the problem was sediment, but might be also something else then sediment as well. I ran CO2 through output in corny keg - so CO2 with pressure travels through long pipe to the bottom of the keg and brakes sediment. And after I did that, i was able to pour pint. It was not perfect pouring with 4 times pulling in out, but I needed 8-ish pulls to fill a 0,4 liter glass. There is still bit of a beer going in direction of keg when i am putting handle to upright position, but lot less then before braking sediment. So big progress there. But...
I see lot of air inside the hoses, and i guess there shouldn't be any air. So air is getting in the hose somehow. I haven't noticed any air in pipes when i drowned hose in the water and it was pouring perfectly - basically as soon as I pulled handle nice stream of water was going out of the faucet. Also before I did test with same connection with water inside the corny keg - and it was working really nicely with water in keg - i needed only 4 pulls to fill the glass.
Something should be fishy with my connection to corny keg or something else, any suggestions?
I finally managed to pour myself a pint. So happy, it was fresh and delicious bitter, small carbonation, just one sip and i felt like i am on a trip in UK in one of the cask ale pubs :-)
It seems that part of the problem was sediment, but might be also something else then sediment as well. I ran CO2 through output in corny keg - so CO2 with pressure travels through long pipe to the bottom of the keg and brakes sediment. And after I did that, i was able to pour pint. It was not perfect pouring with 4 times pulling in out, but I needed 8-ish pulls to fill a 0,4 liter glass. There is still bit of a beer going in direction of keg when i am putting handle to upright position, but lot less then before braking sediment. So big progress there. But...
I see lot of air inside the hoses, and i guess there shouldn't be any air. So air is getting in the hose somehow. I haven't noticed any air in pipes when i drowned hose in the water and it was pouring perfectly - basically as soon as I pulled handle nice stream of water was going out of the faucet. Also before I did test with same connection with water inside the corny keg - and it was working really nicely with water in keg - i needed only 4 pulls to fill the glass.
Something should be fishy with my connection to corny keg or something else, any suggestions?
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RoomWithABrew
Landlord.
Great progress.
The bubbles are because the beer has carbonation ( probably a bit high ) when you lower the pressure in the tube with the engine pulling the gas comes out of solution. Much like the head on a pint when you pour it via a keg with pressure and a tap.
You need a very low carbonation on the beer around 1 vol and a CO 2 supply that is only a couple of psi. Often need a gas cylinder regulator for that.
Have you read the " treatise " on this forum about cask ale serving?
I'll hunt it down when I get to the pub in a few minutes and having a beer.
RoomWithABrew
Landlord.
Worth a read
peebee
Out of Control
The "Treatise!" ... wowie, wowie. Yeah, that'll have the answers ... now who wrote it? Paul Baldwin ... I'm sure I've heard of him ... initials of Pee, Bee ...
I can tell @RoomWithABrew is using a mobile phone in portrait mode to view this forum 'cos he had to hunt the "Treatise" out. Portrait mode doesn't display forum user's "signatures" so I guess he can't see mine ... the link to the "Treatise" follows me around in every post I make (look below vvvvv). Good grief, it's over seven years ago since I finished writing it. Guess that's why I don't feel as lithe and packed with energy any longer
peebee
Out of Control
The most relevant bit of that treatise to this discussion is the following "highly stylised" diagram. I often refer to it (or should refer to it and it would stop me making some blunders I've done in the past):
It's that lower valve ("from cask") I've been suspecting. But, seems it was the line-in from @ivanb's most recent post.
But note: NO gas pressure. The add-on "demand valve" deals with that. I use gas pressure (and the demand valve) to allow "emulating" hand-pulled cask beers in a home-brew situation. The gas is controlled with a propane/butane regulator to keep it below 2 psi(g). Ordinary regulators can't hold to such low pressure (que: "howls of protest"), very expensive ones can, but propane/butane regulators* offer a cheap alternative (they have to be good because tens, even hundreds, of thousands of caravaners rely on them to not have accidents with highly inflammable gas!).
Unfortunately, beer Demand Valves are now good enough to hold back very highly pressured beer. Because of this we find drinking establishments (Pubs!) selling ridiculously fizzy "Craft" beer from hand-pumps. For what purpose ... only the deceived drinker knows that.
*I recommend the Spanish made 50-150mbar Clesse regulators because they're not encumbered with the horrible POL adapters. And they are variable!
It's that lower valve ("from cask") I've been suspecting. But, seems it was the line-in from @ivanb's most recent post.
But note: NO gas pressure. The add-on "demand valve" deals with that. I use gas pressure (and the demand valve) to allow "emulating" hand-pulled cask beers in a home-brew situation. The gas is controlled with a propane/butane regulator to keep it below 2 psi(g). Ordinary regulators can't hold to such low pressure (que: "howls of protest"), very expensive ones can, but propane/butane regulators* offer a cheap alternative (they have to be good because tens, even hundreds, of thousands of caravaners rely on them to not have accidents with highly inflammable gas!).
Unfortunately, beer Demand Valves are now good enough to hold back very highly pressured beer. Because of this we find drinking establishments (Pubs!) selling ridiculously fizzy "Craft" beer from hand-pumps. For what purpose ... only the deceived drinker knows that.
*I recommend the Spanish made 50-150mbar Clesse regulators because they're not encumbered with the horrible POL adapters. And they are variable!
RoomWithABrew
Landlord.
James
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Off topic, but the problem I wanted to solve was how to make it more sanitary for just a pint or two without leaving beer in the beer engine.
A three way valve and a beer line tail to put in some water ? ( pull water through on last serve, then free to flush)
Maybe an in line quick disconnect?
Anything I think of seems prone to “user error”
A three way valve and a beer line tail to put in some water ? ( pull water through on last serve, then free to flush)
Maybe an in line quick disconnect?
Anything I think of seems prone to “user error”
peebee
Out of Control
I have a "tail" 'tween demand valve and pump. I could use it to flush the pump, but I probably do it only twice per keg - and one of those is when the keg is empty and being changed.
I have 12V valves fitted to the pump's nozzle (out of sight, inside the pump housing) but have been playing around with "check-valves" in the sparkler attachment (I use near neutral sparklers when a sparkler isn't appropriate). Sealing that nozzle keeps beer in the pump sound for a few days and is a lot less hassle. "Flushing" the pump regularly wastes beer, often results in watering down the pumped beer, and is a PITA. You end up not using the hand-pump when you can avoid it (hand-pumped beer beats gravity poured, so not using the hand-pump is a waste of beer in my mind too).
Having an electric valve puts quite a tight restriction in the beer line. That breaks out more dissolved CO2 into an excellent head (I only have about 1 PSI in the keg), and makes a proper (small holes) "sparkler" even less useful. Sparklers can strip flavour out of some beers (and I can't tell which until I try it).
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