Grainfather GF30 Cleaning Advice

Morning all,

I've just come to clean my GF30 after my first brew in it and there is a slight stain where the Krausen was. I have manually cleaned and soaked using different strengths of Chemclean and it won't budge. Do I take this as clean and the metal has just stained slightly or do I need a different approach to cleaning it?

Crafty said:

Morning all,

I've just come to clean my GF30 after my first brew in it and there is a slight stain where the Krausen was. I have manually cleaned and soaked using different strengths of Chemclean and it won't budge. Do I take this as clean and the metal has just stained slightly or do I need a different approach to cleaning it?

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"Slight stain"? I wouldn't worry about it. Whatever you do, don't use an abrasive cleaner on stainless steel.*

"Chemclean" is a typical alkaline cleaner. The company is a bit "evasive" when it comes to describing it ... normal for a UK company apparently, 'cos us Brits like to be a bit secretive. "Disodium Carbonate, compound with Hydrogen Peroxide" indeed! They mean common or garden Sodium Percarbonate (but don't mention that or you may find it cheaper elsewhere). Excellent cleaner for (organic) muck; I use it myself (sodium percarbonate I mean). It's the Hydrogen Peroxide that does a lot of shifting as it breaks down ... and is responsible for the warnings about eye damage. "Chemclean" also contains a silicate degreaser (alternative to phosphate compounds that should have been banned completely) and a "surfactant", or surface wetter, actually the sodium salt of the active principal in "Starsan"(dodecylbenzenesulphonate acid).

Anyway, enough of that, just setting the scene for what follows:


Stain? It's highest quality Chinese Stainless-Steel! That's tongue-in-cheek by-the-way. It's far from high quality Stainless-Steel ... the Chinese can certainly make it, but they don't sell it to Westerners, if they can get away with it. An alkaline cleaner (of organic grime) probably isn't going to shift your stain, but it'll ensure it's clean! I wouldn't worry, a "slight stain" will disappear in time (or become unobvious among all the other stains it'll pick up).


* If you have use something abrasive: Clean it normally, perhaps lightly dry it with a clean cloth, then leave it out to air dry, then leave it a bit longer to let oxygen do its work ("passivate"). If you used wirewool (gawd forbid) you may get light rust spots (wirewool will rub iron into the surface) ... a spray with Starsan will usually move them (no more than 3 minutes contact time, the acid dissolves away surface iron and leaves surface chromium (a component of "Stainless-Steel") to oxidise into a protective skin ... otherwise known as "passivation").

Wouldn’t worry about a stain but try the Enzybrew 10 cleaner with a rotating head for an hour or so and it comes up good as new!

Rick. said:

Wouldn’t worry about a stain but try the Enzybrew 10 cleaner with a rotating head for an hour or so and it comes up good as new!

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I've heard good things about Enzybrew so will definitely give it a try, the price has put me off before now but I guess you get what you pay for. I managed to shift most of the stains with neat chemsan applied with a microfiber cloth then immediately rinsed off with loads of water. I guess it's more of a metal reaction of some sort thats caused it rather than hard to shift residue

The GF30s I’ve had both had loads of oil and swarf on them from manufacturing.

Cleaning with washing up liquid before use removed nearly all of it, but I did get a little back each time.

Scrubbing with some bar keepers friend worked well to remove it.

JockyBrewer said:

Scrubbing with some bar keepers friend worked well to remove it.

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Yes indeed.

I use that after TFR (truck wash) and to be honest, there isn't much that leaves behind. Chinese stainless or otherwise.

Try caustic TFR before spending lots of money.

Enzybrew 10? It's another cleaner for organic grime! It sounds very good ... and it is pretty expensive! Won't help for inorganic stains as seems to be described here.

Try to understand a little about what you're trying to remove, it can save a lot of frustration and wasted effort ... and wasted money! In this case, the only detail you have to know is would an acid-based cleaner be best, or an alkaline (caustic) one?

MashBag said:

Try caustic TFR before spending lots of money.

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Wrong! But it won't cost a lot of money trying (and it will leave the stain clean!).

MashBag said:

JockyBrewer said:

Scrubbing with some bar keepers friend worked well to remove it.

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Yes indeed.

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Based on Oxalic Acid. Careful with what you "scrub" with! And it is mildly abrasive so leave dry overnight as a precaution (or in water ... there should be enough dissolved oxygen in most water to ensure "passivation").

Crafty said:

I managed to shift most of the stains with neat chemsan applied with a microfiber cloth then immediately rinsed off with loads of water.

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Based on Phosphoric Acid! (Note above concerning "passivation").

peebee said:

Wrong! But it won't cost a lot of money trying (and it will leave the stain clean!).

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Each to there own. Many years, many 1000`s of liters and many friends wouldn't agree with you.

Crafty said:

Morning all,

I've just come to clean my GF30 after my first brew in it and there is a slight stain where the Krausen was. I have manually cleaned and soaked using different strengths of Chemclean and it won't budge. Do I take this as clean and the metal has just stained slightly or do I need a different approach to cleaning it?

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Morning
I use white vinegar to soak build up in my Brewzilla 3.1.1.
Leave the vinegar in contact for a few hours and clean off with a sponge.
Don’t need a lot of vinegar; just swoosh it around to make contact then leave.
I do lie my Brewzilla down so the small pool of vinegar sits over the worst bits but that is easy enough to do.
Nice and shiny now!

MashBag said:

Each to there own. Many years, many 1000`s of liters and many friends wouldn't agree with you.

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Careful. You're descending into Snake-oil purveyor territory (cures everything). Complete with "mates-down-the-pub" for backup: Who no doubt wash babies in caustic TFR?

Rather than "each-to-their-own", perhaps you meant "horses-for-courses"?

I had been careful to include your thumbs-up for "Bar Keepers' Friend" (oxalic acid based). It's got flippin' awkward now-'days to have nesting quotes as they appear in a post. Once nesting quotes were the norm, now you've got to jump through hoops (and balance fish on the end of your nose?).

Absolutely. I am happy with the easiest & quickest cleanup I can perform. Tried almost all of the propriety brands*. Now given away, cos they don't keep up with TFR.

After 1000s of litres of hooch, all my kit is spotless, without stains and have never caused infection.

BKF and vodka are the only other products I use. I reckon that's a pass

*Not tried snake oil, do you dilute that or use it straight from the bottle?

MashBag said:

Absolutely. I am happy with the easiest & quickest cleanup I can perform. Tried almost all of the propriety brands*. Now given away, cos they don't keep up with TFR.

After 1000s of litres of hooch, all my kit is spotless, without stains and have never caused infection.

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I'm sure you're happy with its cleaning performance, but I'd warn anyone off using it. The formulations I could find often contained trisodium nitrilotriacetate - thought to be a human carcinogen and nephrotoxin (damaging to the kidneys) when ingested.

Sure you'll probably rinse it all off, but it's taking an unnecessary risk.

MashBag said:

*Not tried snake oil, do you dilute that or use it straight from the bottle?

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Diluted or straight from the bottle. With or without ice. When not drinking it, it will do ... (What was it we were trying to do ... ?) ... it'll do it, ... whatever it was. Guaranteed free of nephrotoxin ... (neff...what? Well, it ain't got any o' that in! Err, yeah, guaranteed! I fink...).

JockyBrewer said:

I'm sure you're happy with its cleaning performance, but I'd warn anyone off using it. The formulations I could find often contained trisodium nitrilotriacetate - thought to be a human carcinogen and nephrotoxin (damaging to the kidneys) when ingested.

Sure you'll probably rinse it all off, but it's taking an unnecessary risk.

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Most cleaning chemicals contain things that are nasty to life (ie, us) by their nature. But I tend to prefer "food grade/safe" cleaning products rather than something designed for trucks. I'd rather not risk it.

JockyBrewer said:

I'm sure you're happy with its cleaning performance, but I'd warn anyone off using it. The formulations I could find often contained trisodium nitrilotriacetate - thought to be a human carcinogen and nephrotoxin (damaging to the kidneys) when ingested.

Sure you'll probably rinse it all off, but it's taking an unnecessary risk.

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Each to there own, but I do think there's bigger risks or there

Agentgonzo said:

Most cleaning chemicals contain things that are nasty to life (ie, us) by their nature. But I tend to prefer "food grade/safe" cleaning products rather than something designed for trucks. I'd rather not risk it.

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Caustic is the food industry go to. Tbh I do think you are more likely to get something nasty in the a takeaway curry you are off cause in charge of your own rinsing

Agentgonzo said:

Most cleaning chemicals contain things that are nasty to life (ie, us) by their nature. But I tend to prefer "food grade/safe" cleaning products rather than something designed for trucks. I'd rather not risk it.

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The other ingredients were stuff I regularly see in food and drink industry cleaners. The only food industry use of trisodium nitrilotriacetate I could find was at a low concentration water additive in to boilers that produce steam for processing to stop them scaling up. But not as a cleaner.

MashBag said:

Each to there own, but I do think there's bigger risks or there

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True, I’m just warning that there are people less careful than yourself.

For example, I’ve heard of homebrewers accidentally leaving cleaner or sanitiser in their fermenter and then running wort on top of it and then drinking the result anyway.

That is a very good point.
Good shout.