Electric cars.

[Chippy_Tea]

Facts, education and respect please

The thread is full of facts but some people don't read the thread, choose to ignore them or jump in several pages in and post the same stuff that has already been discussed and proved to be wrong.
A perfect example of this is below -

Plus you cannot put them out when they catch fire !

 

[old dog new tricks]

Well I will openly admit I am a convert and very close to buying a used EV, the prices are now on par with ICE and for PCP deals they are almost the same amazing when you get the right dealer and sales manager how the deals can be made!

All cars suffer form depreciation, the example of the porker above well sorry if you buy cars at this value what do you expect? The Jag iPace is the same falling off a cliff but to a certain level the market is just sorting itself out. Some Evs are doing very well loom at MG4 and MG5 they are holding far better resale than could ever been imagined, likewise Kia Niro EV they hold good residuals after 3 or 4 years. The release of lease stock is helping to stabilise prices at last even the halo Tesla models are staring to drop.
Big dealers are now under pressure to sell 20% EV this year rising 10% each year until 80% is reached, so EVs are not going away.

Afforable EVs are available sure you a premium name you can pay for and risk higher depreciation, the market is only now waking up to fact consumers do not care if its a no name brand if it has enough range holds enough charge and suits their needs that is what they want, the established old guard have lost their way to relative newcomers.

Charging network I agree its a joke and not fit for purpose and vastly inflated. The dealers i have spoken with have been very honest only consider an EV if you can charge from home, if you can not they are advising not to go EV and look at hybrid or petrol. Very rarely do i give certain large franchise dealers credit but this is responsible marketing and being open about the potential higher cost compared to an ICE if you rely on public charging.

yes this creates an us and them culture until the public network is vastly improved and cost effective.

The Fire risk is fair and in warmer countries this has prompted recalls I see where you are coming from in that one, but most modern EVs have advanced battery management, cooling and heating to keep them in optimum condition, there are plenty of MG5 and Kia Niro that taxi drivers are into 200k on original battery only issue is changing gearbox oil every 100k. The game has moved on since the Nissan Leaf era.

Tesla have also announced they are scrapping the Giga Casting process ie making the entire floor plan in a single high pressure casting, the cost through life spooked the market.

Some amazing EVs coming through now manufacturers understand the tech and for some this is their 2nd or 3rd gen look at something like the Kia EV6 miles ahead of the early cars.

Bit i cannot contest is the weight of EVs, until battery tech improves this is an issue BUT keeping this in mid the car i looked at is 1680kg , that is heck of lot lighter than most ICE, is it smaller slightly yes, does it comfortably fit my 6ft 150kg frame front and back and have enough boot space yes. Perhaps its more about asking do we need the 20inch wheels the big flashy body styles or simply small and light enough to do the job. As Colin Chapman once said 10kg saving is worth 4 times as much as 10hp increase.

 

[Leon103]

This is the most entertaining thread on the forum.
EV car's are still on course for a massive price reduction within 12 months.

 

[dad_of_jon]

yes been looking into this the brake wear on EVs is negligible, likewise the horror stories or eating tyres seems unfounded.

assuming your tracking isn't out tyre wear would mainly be caused harsh braking and acceleration. The mass of the vehicle would also play a part as more kinetic energy to deal with under braking. I had 22k miles out of my front tyres.

 

[Rodcx500z]

And don't forget from 1-7-24 all new cars must be fitted with automatic speed limiters and, older cars on the forcourt must be retro fitted with them, i think this is a smart move and could shift the market in favour of ev's, the only downside is were will the lost revenue be made up ie speeding fines, my 20 plate juke has one fitted but it only flashes a warning up

 

[dad_of_jon]

Interesting.

At the end of last year Hyundai/Kia announced a new platform for cars that fundamentally changed their layout by putting a smaller motor and regen system into each wheel, removing the need for all the stuff that transmits motion from the motor to the wheels: https://electrek.co/2023/11/29/hyun...i-wheel-drive-system-revolutionize-ev-design/

cool, how do current ev drivetrains compare with ICE cars? Chippys post about wheel damage is valid maybe they have could have them close to but not integrated in the wheel. In AUZ a spare tyre is mandatory that might not work well.

 

[old dog new tricks]

cool, how do current ev drivetrains compare with ICE cars? Chippys post about wheel damage is valid maybe they have could have them close to but not integrated in the wheel. In AUZ a spare tyre is mandatory that might not work well.

Current EVs use fundamentally the same drive to the wheels drive shaft out put from gearbox (yes EVs still have a reduction box even if only one speed) with differential to allow each wheel to rotate at different speeds when cornering, CV joints at either end of the driveshaft to allow for suspension movement.

The in wheel proposal removes the CV joints and the motor is mounted in each hub and the planet gearing means less less than CVs out of perfect alignment would suffer.

Aside from the potential efficiency it open up the option to power each wheel independently, removing the differential and allowing electronic control to keep each wheel at the optimum speed. This is in effect an electric diff like supercars and F! used to use to maximise traction at all times.

 

[AlBrew]

assuming your tracking isn't out tyre wear would mainly be caused harsh braking and acceleration. The mass of the vehicle would also play a part as more kinetic energy to deal with under braking. I had 22k miles out of my front tyres.

View attachment 99002

I got 30k out of mine, changed all 4 though as all wheel drive. This second lot look like they may last even longer.

 

[dad_of_jon]

I got 30k out of mine, changed all 4 though as all wheel drive. This second lot look like they may last even longer.

ah yes you should rotate them then. I could well get 30k+ from the rears. I would normally swap them front to back (as better to have more grip on rear wheels) but the tpms on the wheels would need to be reprogrammed.

 

[Northern_Brewer]

Well I will openly admit I am a convert and very close to buying a used EV, the prices are now on par with ICE and for PCP deals they are almost the same amazing when you get the right dealer and sales manager how the deals can be made!

Can I just say thanks, it's been really interesting following your (hate the word but...) journey through the world of EVs, one can't beat experience gained with real £££ at stake.

Tesla have also announced they are scrapping the Giga Casting process ie making the entire floor plan in a single high pressure casting, the cost through life spooked the market.

Oooh, I'd not seen that. I'd view that as part of their current attempts to please the financial markets by minimising capex, new gigacasts need a lot of experiments to get right, and each experiment costs them over £1m....

As Colin Chapman once said 10kg saving is worth 4 times as much as 10hp increase.

It's fun seeing what his spiritual successor, Adrian Newey, has achieved with effectively unlimited budget for weight reduction on his road car, the Aston Valkyrie :
https://www.motortrend.com/reviews/2023-aston-martin-valkyrie-first-drive-review/

 

[JockyBrewer]

The thread is full of facts but some people don't read the thread, choose to ignore them or jump in several pages in and post the same stuff that has already been discussed and proved to be wrong.
A perfect example of this is below -

Reading 92 pages as a prerequisite for participation seems quite a high bar to set

I do find it amusing that this is the one topic on the forum where occasionally someone decides to pop in to state that we're all wrong, my inference being that we should give up discussing the subject.

Mostly though I'm interested in what @nibber has against EVs, and what he thinks the alternatives are.

 

[AlBrew]

ah yes you should rotate them then. I could well get 30k+ from the rears. I would normally swap them front to back (as better to have more grip on rear wheels) but the tpms on the wheels would need to be reprogrammed.

They appeared to all wear at the same rate without any rotation, just checking it's a 40/60 (front/rear) power distribution so maybe that says more about how I take corners that what should be expected as normal

 

[AlBrew]

give up discussing the subject.

Let's call it an evolving subject, anyway what else am I going to read on a Sunday afternoon!

 

[JockyBrewer]

Tesla have also announced they are scrapping the Giga Casting process ie making the entire floor plan in a single high pressure casting, the cost through life spooked the market.

Not scrapping it - they've scrapped plans to cast the floor in one piece, but they'll continue to produce the floor in three gigacasted pieces.

 

[Chippy_Tea]

Reading 92 pages as a prerequisite for participation seems quite a high bar to set

Well if members dont want to read the full thread so they have all the facts then "pop in to state that we're all wrong" they should expect to be told its them who are wrong and they shouldn't take it personally

 

[Northern_Brewer]

But whilst we're on the subject of the fire thing :
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/c90zjne2v0jo
“Data from EV FireSafe, which is backed by the Australian Government, indicates that petrol cars are over 80 times more likely to set on fire than EVs,” he told the BBC.

He also highlighted a report released last year from the Swedish Civil Contingencies Agency which found that in 2022 there was an average of 3.8 fires per 100,000 electric and hybrid cars, and 68 fires per 100,000 cars of all fuel types, with these figures including arson.

“It’s important that drivers understand the relative risks"

That first one seems to come from here :
Our intial research findings, based on global EV battery fires from 2010-2020, indicate a 0.0012% of a passenger electric vehicle battery catching fire. While it's difficult to find a similar stat for internal combustion engine (ICE) passenger vehicles globally, a range of country-based reports we found suggest there is a 0.1% chance of an ICE vehicle catching fire.

The second one is here, and says there were 23 fires in a fleet of 611k EVs in Sweden, but 3,400 out of 4.4m ICE cars.

 

[Benfleet Brewery]

Taken from a post on X (formally Twitter)

Electric cars the truth..

I'm fed up of comments from people ridiculing EVs. They don't know what they're talking about.. ..

Personally, I drive two top of the range EVs, a Jaguar and a Porsche.

Their acceleration and handling is fantastic. They look brilliant and they're really cheap to run. They need hardly any maintenance and haven't depreciated since I bought them.

Literally the only criticism I could make of them is sometimes, if I really push them into a corner, they can fly off the track and get stuck under the sofa....

 

[old dog new tricks]

Taken from a post on X (formally Twitter)

Electric cars the truth..

I'm fed up of comments from people ridiculing EVs. They don't know what they're talking about.. ..

Personally, I drive two top of the range EVs, a Jaguar and a Porsche.

Their acceleration and handling is fantastic. They look brilliant and they're really cheap to run. They need hardly any maintenance and haven't depreciated since I bought them.

Literally the only criticism I could make of them is sometimes, if I really push them into a corner, they can fly off the track and get stuck under the sofa....

Pmsl well if my potential new EV handles like that I will not grumble haha